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MATARA (emcee): Welcome to Student Tech Share! Starting in February of 2022, the Student Technology Consultants are hosting a series of conversations with students at the University of Colorado Boulder to chat about how they use technology. The theme of the first session was “Connection,” and this conversation will be discussing “Productivity.” Ethan Pyke, Shivangi Khandelwal, and Matara Hitchcock (that’s me) will talk about how they understand productivity, and how that understanding informs the technologies they choose to help them accomplish their goals.

MATARA: So, welcome everyone! Today we're going to be talking about productivity and how that connects with technology…or how it doesn't. I'm Matara. Let’s just go around the room.

ETHAN:  I'm Ethan

SHIVANGI: Hi, I'm Shivangi.

MATARA: Great! So to start things off, if you have a task you know you need to do and somebody tells you to do it, does that make you want to do the task more or do it less?

ETHAN: For me personally that depends a lot on the scenario in which the task is coming from. So in a professional—like work or classroom—scenario, I'm probably gonna get it done either way. like it doesn't really affect but like um If it's something like cleaning my room or something or um yeah cleaning my apartment or anything like that, if I was already gonna do it and then somebody asked me to do it usually makes me not want to do it. but yeah yeah yeah 

SHIVANGI: I feel it's the same case with me, it depends what kind of work it is. If it's interesting for me, yeah I'll do it, if somebody tells me to do it though i'll do it but if it's not and somebody's asking me to do it again and again I was like no I'm not gonna be doing it yeah so yeah things works that way maybe yeah okay

MATARA: Yeah I'm also in the “not” category, especially if it's cleaning the apartment. I can even enjoy doing something like that as long as there's not a reason I have to do it. Like if we have company coming over, it can be irritating for me to like have to clean. But if it's just “Oh, cleaning my room would make me feel better” then I'll do it. So Leslie Blood, who we've talked to in a video series we've done in the past, talks about Gretchen Rubin—who's another person—who has this motivational theory about motivational tendencies. There are external and internal expectations that either motivate us or don't. For example some people—some lucky people—are motivated by internal and external motivators or expectations. Those are called “upholders.” Really you just need to tell them what to do and they'll just do it. People who are “obligers” who as long as somebody else expects them to do it they'll do it. So if their friend like is expecting them to go to the gym with them in the morning, then they'll go to the gym with them in the morning. There are “questioners” who just need internal expectations. So as long as they know the “why” and they've bought in personally, they'll do it. Then, there are rebels who neither those things motivate. They need freedom to choose what they want to do at any given moment, otherwise everything feels like a chore. Do any of those motivational tendencies resonate with you?

ETHAN: Yeah I feel like I'm more of an obliger like for the most part. I don't know. Like that's not the only one, but yeah definitely having some sort of accountability like due dates or plans to meet with people that usually motivates me a bit more. There are times when I have internal motivation, but it's usually more often than not that if something's due I'm definitely going to prioritize that. So yeah, external motivation. 

SHIVANGI: I think in my case I kind of need an internal motivation. I'll question it. like do you want me to like do you like “Is it required for me to do it or not” or “Is it necessary?” That way things work for me. I need some sort of an internal motivation

MATARA: I think that's me on a good day, yeah.

SHIVANGI: nothing at least not in terms of expectations so yeah even I'm talking about the good days I don't know about the bad days yeah because that's too much of the mood coming through.

MATARA: Like I was talking about earlier, sometimes ways I give myself freedom or the illusion of freedom is just creating a massive task list with all of the things I could possibly do. What I know I need to do is something, but I have the freedom to pick any of those things on that list. But sometimes it gets to the point where even my hobbies—like I’ve been doing air dry clay lately—start to feel like “oh I have to do this” like this is a project I now have to work on. But if I have multiple things I can choose between, then there's the greater chance of me doing something. She also talks about the enneagram, which I don't think we've talked about on this podcast before. Have you guys ever heard of it?

SHIVANGI: Enneagram? No, I have no idea.

ETHAN: I have, yeah. I think in high school I had to take her enneagram test.

MATARA: Yeah, yeah it's becoming a bigger thing. We had an article about it sometime last year. It could be used for a lot of things um, one of the most important things about the enneagram is “core motivators.” There's nine different types. Knowing what kind of—like for me, I'm a “four,” so being original or unique is a motivator for me. There's the “achiever” where like being impressive or successful looking in the eyes of others is what motivates them. There's Type 7 where having fun, being excited about life is what motivates them. So looking into that as well helps in terms of productivity. Saying that all because when we think about productivity, a lot of the time we think in one frame of reference. Type A, getting stuff done, executing, outputting whatever you have been told to do. And that's not a helpful framework for everyone.

ETHAN: Yeah, it definitely differs from person to person. It's not the same in terms of motivation for people

MATARA: Otherwise we'd all be productive all the time. 

ETHAN: Otherwise there'd be one app that would exactly help every single person get things done.

MATARA: Yeah why would you need anything more than a to-do list?

SHIVANGI: yeah yeah yeah for I I think for me it's like if I'm not productive in the morning like for this for a couple of hours I won't be productive for the rest of the day yeah and which completely degrades my idea so I have to be productive in the morning to have a good day throughout right 

ETHAN: You got to get those 8am classes.

MATARA: Maybe that's your block! You have a morning block and then it's gone. I think when we then think about how technology can help us, step one is figuring out what your motivations are so that you know what tools are most applicable to your motivation style. So now we can talk about some of those tools. They kind of fit in different buckets, and we can also just throw some out there. I did realize earlier today that Gretchen Rubin, who's the mastermind behind the Four Tendencies framework, also has an app called Happier that makes space for a bunch of those different motivational tendencies. So there's a way to like have accountability on the app, like you have an accountability buddy and as you get stuff done that lets them know. There's also ways of like tracking numbers, so the amount of pages you've read or written or steps you've taken you can track that on the app. There's a journal you could use or like a photo journal so you can take pictures of progress and see it develop over time. You can use it for all different kinds of projects, whereas you know some apps are just for weight loss or just for learning a language. Duolingo has the most intense motivation stuff I know of just in terms of…uh…being annoying? I don't know. Reminding you to get stuff done.

ETHAN: Seriously, yeah.

MATARA: But there are to-do list apps. Do you guys use any of those?

ETHAN: yeah I think for me like the most helpful apps are like um I use the reminders app and then calendar app on like all my apple like on my mac ipad iphone and those are like the best because it's just like like I said earlier like I'm really motivated by like due dates and stuff so by being able to throw those into the apps and then just having it on like all my devices and you know then when I open up my laptop and and prepare to get stuff done I'm like okay what do I need to get done today and I see you know everything that's due and um yeah it allows me to like just work on it and yeah yeah yeah complete yeah

SHIVANGI: I use google I think google calendar is one of the most productive application I feel because you insert what you want to be doing and you when you're done doing it you just okay this is done this is done oh like yeah you have done a lot of work which is which makes you very like more inspired to do it the other day as well so so yeah it's it's a good app I feel it's a common though I don't know how everyone takes that uh application the usage of it basically but for me it's it's really helpful for every day yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think yeah

MATARA: Both Google calendar and the app you're using are heavily integrated where you already are, which is really important for lowering that activation energy. I know in my own life, even in the analog world…like, for example I do the dishes a lot more consistently if I have the dishwasher open so I don't have to open the dishwasher door each time I put a plate in. It sounds ridiculous and my dad gets very angry about things like this when I bring it up at home but it lowers the activation energy just enough to get it done. I wanted to start flossing more this year, and so I'll leave my floss pick out where I can see it to remind me to get it done.

SHIVANGI: I think the dishwasher is really good I'm going to be trying that for sure

MATARA: Sometimes it helps. But heaven forbid you get to the point where somebody forgets to run the dishwasher, and then it'll be full. So then, if you are going to clean a dish, you not only have to put that dish in the dishwasher, but first you have to like put up everything else that’s already clean. And maybe the drying rack’s already full too, so you have to dry that. And then it spirals out of control. Activation energy is important. Which I guess is kind of the theme we talked about with connection too. I think a strength of technology is that integration piece where…Jacie and I had a conversation earlier today about how there are apps for everything now. Like every restaurant, every airline, company—so many different discrete apps that don't talk to each other. But when they do, and you can have your email and your notes and your calendar and—we've been using Google Jamboard on our team, so just like creativity brainstorm madness—when that's all in the same spot, life gets a lot simpler. because it is having an app to do each of those things

ETHAN: Yeah that definitely seems like the goal of Google for sure. They're kind of the first ones. But I mean also Apple, like they're super exclusive, but they have everything. And they make sure that it's all integrated together. Connecting it to your email addresses and then it's everything: your mail, your calendar, notes, reminders. It's all there for you.

MATARA: Which is tough, because we talk about how we don't want Big Tech to have monopolies. And they have so much control over them. But it's also so convenient.

SHIVANGI: On one hand we're thinking “Oh, they're collecting all our data! All our personal things!” but the other is like “That's fine. I'm not doing anything very big.” It's funny. If they have the data, it's convenient for me at least. It's worth it

ETHAN: Data helps. Like the screen time data is super helpful for productivity. You realize like “Wow, I was on my phone like way too much today,” you know? Being able to set those limits.

MATARA: Yeah, on my phone if you go into settings you can see different apps and how many minutes you use them per day,like how many minutes they were on the screen. Seeing how that flows throughout the work week, or whatever it is. Monday I'm usually on my phone the least and then by Friday it's like…it's too much. My brain's fried.

SHIVANGI: Friday nights are the most time I give to all sorts of applications. I don't have anything to do on Saturday.

MATARA: So we could also talk about…for those people who do appreciate external expectations, the “obligers” and “upholders” among us. How do you get externally motivated? How do you build relationships with people to a point where they externally motivate you, and what do you use to do that?

SHIVANGI: A couple of times my roommates do that. I'm talking to them, they're telling me “Oh, I've done this this week, I've done that this week.” I'm like “Oh I need to do stuff as well…” Okay, it irritates me at some point, but it motivates me. I won't say a motivation…but yeah it pushes me to do some sort of work which I've been procrastinating for the last few weeks. Because those are the people I am most in contact with. So yeah, my roommates do that sometimes. 

MATARA: Yeah that expectation that comes with comparison. Which I guess you said you're a questioner, so you need to be internally motivated. So you're taking that external input or stimulus and bringing it inside.

ETHAN: Yeah I think that it relates a lot to, like I said earlier, due dates and stuff. I think also like you can relate those to just personality types, you know? More impulsive people are more internally motivated, because you know, if something is motivating them enough they're just ready to hop on it. For me I know—and I bet other externally motivated people—it's definitely more planning. Having a plan and sticking to it. Or if somebody else is holding you to a plan and having you stick to it, then it's more motivating to get it done just out of the respect for other people. Other project members, friends, you know, whatever you're doing. Even going to the gym if you're planning on meeting somebody there. I'm probably gonna be more likely to go then than if I'm just like “I'll go after class.” So that layer of responsibility of not leaving people hanging. I think maybe the I'm the worst maybe the only way that would work for me um is yeah 

MATARA: In the enneagram article—and I think MingMing mentioned this at some point in the Student Survival Guide videos—but those like Forest or Flora apps, where you'll have to water a tree or water a plant. And in order to do that, you have to have 30 minutes of productivity. So if you get on your phone during that 30 minutes, it'll fail the watering and start to kill your plant. So you could look at that as like an external expectation because it's the app that expects you to do something. Or you can also like partner up with other people on these apps, so it's a group productivity time where all of us for the next 30 minutes cannot touch our phones otherwise the plant will die. So it's a visual representation of that accountability.

ETHAN: Yeah that group stuff is cool. It's funny because I'll be scrolling through TikTik (probably on times that are not great) but there's these live videos that it's just like…”study with me!” And you know, there's a countdown timer, and it's 30 minutes. It's just the act of doing something accountable, like as a group or something. Then you don't feel like you're the only one. Then that kind of motivates you to get on top of your stuff and get stuff done. 

MATARA: And I’ve seen how that goes astray also. Like they were definitely study sessions they attended an undergrad where everyone would start getting distracted and chit-chatting, so everyone else was buying into like “Oh, we don't really need to work right now.” 

ETHAN: I'm the worst at that! I can't multitask at all, so studying with other people is just nonexistent for me. We're either hanging out or we're studying. 

MATARA: Yeah, I’m the same way. I want to focus when I'm focused. I gotta just get it done.

SHIVANGI: I'm the worst at multitasking, yeah. I feel when you're working with someone there are more thoughts coming in your mind you want to tell them. So you're like “Okay, we need to talk!” We are studying alone, that's fine, okay. you just pass on your thoughts. But when you're sitting with someone like “We need to talk, I need to tell you something!” You should talk. “Oh yeah, your face! I'm reminded.”

MATARA: Yeah, since I'm not motivated by that external thing, I also really appreciate having chunks of a plan I could follow. For me, it's really hard to be productive when I have some big project looming and it stays as a big project. If I can break it down to all of these micro pieces. Like send an email to this person, reach out to CU Boulder Today, and Buff Connect or whatever. Like the smallest pieces I can break it down into that I can then check off helps me progress towards that goal. And then I can see “Oh yeah, I still have to get big looming project done…but I'm a third of the way there because I checked off a third of the things that need to happen!” Which is helpful for me. It may be helpful for people who are working on big final projects right now.

ETHAN: Getting into that time of the year.

MATARA: You have like a month. Most of the stuff's just due in may. 

ETHAN: That’s crazy. Finals week is May. I think the last day of classes is April 28th so…

SHIVANGI: Oh my gosh.

MATARA: Yeah, my roommate graduates May 5th, so it's coming up.

ETHAN: Pretty crazy!

SHIVANGI: I can see the whole month in front of me. So much of work.

ETHAN: Yeah I know, I got a lot to get done. 

MATARA: So is there anything we talked about that you feel like would help you get those things done? Whether it's more of the theoretical or more of the tools. 

SHIVANGI: Oh so yeah I was talking about that application, the pomodoro thing. Yeah it's…I think it's a japanese way of making people more productive—

MATARA: It's Italian! It means “tomato” in Italian. Which is why it's tomato timers. 

SHIVANGI: Sometimes yeah, so it's a 20 minutes and a 5-minute thing. You work for 20 minutes, you take a break for five minutes, then you work for 20 minutes. So those 20 minutes are not too much, so you can end up being very productive. And five minutes is not too less for a break as well. I have tried it a couple of times; it works for me. But they basically are using that with an application, and you end up spending a lot of time in your phone then, right? More automated.

ETHAN: Definitely. What is the app called again?

SHIVANGI: Pomodoro.

MATARA: But yeah that's literally like…if you ever have seen those tomato timers? That's what they have. Okay. Any other like “I can totally apply this!” or “I want to think about this piece more.” No? Alright, it's okay. Productivity is really hard 

ETHAN: Yeah, I'm the worst procrastinator.

MATARA: Honestly—okay kind of a side track, but—one of the things I learned in my MBA that was most helpful in terms of procrastinating was…there's procrastinating that's actually procrastinating, like just putting it off. But then there's procrastinating where it's like “I am really actually thinking about the task I need to execute” . And this time I'm thinking about it is not wasted because it's going to help me do it right the first time when I eventually do it. So like I'm not…I haven't written the paper I need to write for next week, but I have been thinking about how I might write it. Even if it's just kind of in the background while I do other things, or like as I'm heating up my lunch or whatever I'm kind of thinking about the paper. It actually does help! You're not writing a physical outline or anything, but your brain is still…yeah.

SHIVANGI: I do that sometimes if I want to design something, I just keep on thinking about it. Not actually doing it on the paper, but just keep thinking about it. And sometimes it helps me. Like “Oh, some idea just stuck in my mind, but oh, I'm going to do that.” So that actually it's not wasting time doing nothing, but just thinking about it.

MATARA: Yeah, sometimes! It can drive other people in group projects crazy. “Why haven't you done anything!?” It's like “I'm working on it! It's just all in my head.” Great, well thanks for all of your wisdom and chatter today. 

SHIVANGI: Of course!

ETHAN: Thank you, it was fun.

MATARA (emcee): We hope you enjoyed this Student Tech Share! If you’d like to add into the conversation about using technology for “Connection” or “Productivity,” send us a voice message using that link in the description. If you’d like to get a notification about future Tech Shares, click on our reminder form. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope to chat soon!