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Garmai Matthew: Redefining Fashion, Technology, and Entrepreneurship

Emily Iliff — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 13:00:00 +0000

Garmai Matthew: Redefining Fashion, Technology, and Entrepreneurship Emily Iliff Thu, 12/19/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

What happens when a passion for fashion, a drive for sustainability, and an entrepreneurial spirit collide? For Garmai Matthew, the answer is an inspiring journey that spans continents, industries, and cultures. From her roots in Cleveland, Ohio, to the streets of New York and classrooms of CU Boulder, Garmai has built a career that bridges creativity, technology, and purpose.

Garmai began her academic career at Kent State, one of the nation's top fashion schools. As someone with roots in West Africa, pursuing a career in the arts was a balancing act between passion and practicality. "Going into the arts wasn't frowned upon," Garmai

Garmai Matthew

explained, "but my family wanted to ensure I earned a degree that would position me for success in the real world." Her pursuit of both creativity and opportunity ultimately led her to transfer to the University of Colorado Boulder, where she graduated in 2020 with a degree in Distributed Studies.

While at CU Boulder, Garmai's fascination with global fashion and sustainability took center stage. She immersed herself in learning Mandarin, driven by her curiosity about China's role in fashion production. "Everything I owned was made there," Garmai said. "I wanted to understand the language and explore how designers in China approached sustainability." This curiosity led to a transformative study abroad experience at Hubei Normal University, where she collaborated with local students to understand sustainable practices in fashion, particularly the concept of zero waste, a design method that maximizes fabric usage.

Inspired by this experience, Garmai connected her newfound knowledge to her West African roots. She launched her first business, a ready-to-wear clothing brand based in West Africa, applying zero-waste techniques to minimize environmental impact. With funding from CU Boulder’s New Venture Challenge, Garmai traveled to West Africa, partnered with local tailors, and produced 50 garments. The project was a success: she sold out of her designs online, proving that sustainability and cultural connection could be a powerful combination in fashion.

However, Garmai knew that building a business required more than creative talent. "I was graduating, and I needed a job," she admitted. Determined to gain experience, she pivoted into the tech industry: starting at Yelp after "crashing" a career fair geared toward tech majors at CU. Her determination paid off: she secured a role as a sales executive and quickly climbed the ranks to sales manager, developing the grit and skills needed to succeed in business.

From there, Garmai relocated to New York, where her tech career continued to evolve. She joined Wix.com as an account manager, helping clients build e-commerce platforms and expand their reach. It was during her time in the tech industry that she began to see the potential to merge her love of fashion with technology, particularly in the growing market for clothing rental platforms.

Entrepreneurial Spirit and The Swap

Garmai’s entrepreneurial drive continued to thrive, and she founded The Swap, a sustainable and affordable clothing rental platform hyper-focused on streetwear. “The Swap came easy to me because I wanted to be the consumer of it,” Garmai shared. Frustrated by the high costs of streetwear in New York showrooms, she recognized a unique opportunity to address a problem faced by her generation: staying fashionable on a budget.

"My demographic, like my two younger sisters who are college students, struggle to keep their wardrobe fresh without breaking the bank."

The Swap solves multiple challenges. For consumers, it provides access to curated streetwear, including pieces from brands like Off-White and Fear of God, at just $50 a month for unlimited swaps. For emerging streetwear brands, The Swap offers a solution to inventory challenges. Garmai explained, “If brands have items that didn’t sell during big sales like Black Friday, they can place those pieces into our rental ecosystem. Someone in Boulder or LA who’s never heard of the brand can try it out and potentially purchase it.”

Garmai’s idea goes beyond clothing rentals. She envisions regional swap boxes that showcase streetwear from cities like Denver, Cleveland, and Los Angeles, fostering local pride and expanding access to under-the-radar designers.

“Someone from Boulder may not know what’s hot in Cleveland, so why not introduce them to it?”

Garmai said, highlighting her vision for community-driven streetwear ecosystems.

CU Boulder’s New Venture Challenge: Building Confidence

Much of Garmai’s entrepreneurial confidence was gained through CU Boulder’s New Venture Challenge (NVC), a campus-wide competition that provides funding and mentorship for innovative student ventures. Reflecting on her first pitch, Garmai recalled a pivotal moment: "I was lying in bed, thinking about skipping the competition. But I got up, threw on an outfit from my brand, and went for it. I had passion, I had a mission, and I connected to my roots. That conviction really resonated with the judges."

The experience taught Garmai invaluable lessons about communicating her business clearly and confidently. "You need to learn how to pitch your idea a thousand different ways to a thousand different people," she emphasized. From securing her first grant to refining her vision, Garmai’s participation in CU Boulder’s entrepreneurial programs played a significant role in her growth as a leader and innovator.

Advice to Aspiring Entrepreneurs

Garmai’s journey has been one of resilience, confidence, and learning to fail forward. “Take steps, even small ones. Write down your goals, chip away at them, and always bet on yourself,” she advised. “No one will believe in your idea more than you do. If you’re confident, others will believe in you, too.”

“Be who you are. Your background, your story, that’s your secret sauce. No one can be you better than you.”

With The Swap gaining traction and Garmai on track to complete her MBA at CU Boulder’s Leeds School of Business, her story is an inspiring testament to the power of passion, purpose, and perseverance.

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Creative Distillation Episode 73 - Dry Land Distillers with Ashley Taylor Tillman and Alicia Sepulveda

Emily Iliff — Thu, 19 Dec 2024 13:00:00 +0000

Creative Distillation Episode 73 - Dry Land Distillers with Ashley Taylor Tillman and Alicia Sepulveda Emily Iliff Thu, 12/19/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

Looking for the perfect mix of holiday cheer, craft spirits, and entrepreneurial inspiration? The latest Creative Distillation episode has it all! Recorded on location at Dry Land Distillers, a Colorado gem known for its legendary eggnog and annual Nog Off competition, this festive special dives into what makes the holidays (and innovation) truly remarkable.

Hosts Jeff York and Brad Werner from the University of Colorado Boulder are joined by Nels Wroe, founder of Dry Land Distillers, who shares the story of how a friendly competition

among friends turned into a full-blown community event. Last year alone, they sold an astonishing 30 gallons of eggnog in just two and a half hours! With notes of nutmeg, cinnamon, and aged rum, this eggnog is as refined as it is festive, setting the perfect stage for the episode.

But this isn’t just about holiday drinks. The episode brings together some of CU Boulder’s brightest minds, including Ashley Taylor Tillman, Director of CU’s Innovation & Entrepreneurship Initiative, and Alicia Sepulveda, Ph.D., Assistant Director of Research at CU Boulder’s Rad Lab. Together, they explore how CU is fostering a culture of innovation, interdisciplinary collaboration, and entrepreneurship across its campuses, aiming to empower students and faculty to solve real-world problems.

The hosts and guests dig into the importance of sustainable agriculture and the big vision behind regenerative distilling: creating a fully integrated, certified organic supply chain.

As the eggnog tasting continues, so do the heartwarming and humorous holiday stories. From ski shops in Illinois to Santa pub crawls, the team shares personal anecdotes that make the episode feel like a gathering of old friends. Add in a bit of AI-generated Christmas music and Jeff’s musings about technology solving world problems, and you’ve got a holiday special that’s both insightful and entertaining.

So, whether you’re sipping your own eggnog or gearing up for the holiday season, don’t miss this episode of Creative Distillation. Tune in to hear how Dry Land Distillers, CU Boulder’s innovation leaders, and a little holiday magic are shaping the future, one glass (and idea) at a time.

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How Khushang Hirpara and CLD-9 is Revolutionizing the Supplement Industry

Emily Iliff — Thu, 12 Dec 2024 13:00:00 +0000

How Khushang Hirpara and CLD-9 is Revolutionizing the Supplement Industry Emily Iliff Thu, 12/12/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

At just 22, Khushang Hirpara has already achieved what many entrepreneurs spend decades striving for: building a startup that improves lives. His company, CLD-9, tackles the overwhelming complexity of the supplement industry with a data-driven, personalized approach that is reshaping how people think about health and wellness. Raised in Seattle, Washington, in a family deeply rooted in the tech industry, Khushang had early exposure to

innovation and entrepreneurship. His upbringing offered him a choice: follow the traditional path of pursuing computer science at the University of Washington or take a leap toward building his dreams in CU Boulder’s entrepreneurship program. For Khushang, the decision was clear. “I could always learn computer science at some point,” he said, “but this was my chance to chase a dream.”

CU Boulder’s Entrepreneurial Ecosystem and the New Venture Challenge

At CU, Khushang dove into the entrepreneurial scene and explored the university’s entrepreneurial opportunities for students. Khushang decided to take the New Venture Launch, led by Brad Werner, which emphasizes weekly pitching and refining business ideas. he course emphasizes hands-on learning, encouraging participants to pitch their ideas weekly, receive constructive feedback, and iteratively refine their concepts. This rigorous process not only helped Khushang hone his presentation skills but also provided him with a dynamic platform to validate his ideas, develop a compelling business model, and cultivate an entrepreneurial mindset.

One of his most notable achievements was the New Venture Challenge (NVC), CU Boulder’s prestigious startup competition, two years ago. His dedication to learning, particularly in robotics and AI hallucinations, complemented by his entrepreneurial drive, helped him to win the competiton. With the prize money, he developed a website and began refining his ideas. Winning NVC not only brought Khushang a $50,000 prize but also opened the doors to a wealth of opportunities. The competition connected him with influential figures in Colorado’s entrepreneurial scene, enabling him to pitch to investors and B2B partners, ultimately raising an additional $125,000 in funding. These connections also provided access to advisors and ongoing opportunities to speak at events, solidifying Khushang’s place in the startup ecosystem. Reflecting on the experience, he emphasized the lasting impact of the competition:

“So much of the benefits came afterward, from raising capital to building partnerships. I’m still reaping the rewards.”

CLD-9: Simplifying and Transforming the Supplement Experience

All while building his venture, Khushang also became deeply involved in the world of fitness and biohacking. His passion led him to establish an athletic club at CU Boulder, which quickly grew to over 250 members, becoming one of the university’s fastest-growing organizations. Constant exposure to athletes and conversations about supplements, compounded with his family’s discussions about medical needs, sparked a recurring question: “What supplements should I take?” This question, along with Khushang’s hours of research and frustrations with the supplement industry, inspired the initial concept for CLD-9.

CLD-9 started as a solution to a widespread problem: the overwhelming complexity of choosing the right supplements. Khushang recognized that the issue wasn’t a lack of available products but a lack of guidance on what to take. Leveraging advancements in large language models and transformer-based technologies, he and his team developed a system to help users navigate this complexity. Within its first month and a half, the software

attracted over 1,000 users, demonstrating significant demand. However, Khushang quickly identified a second challenge: purchasing supplements could be expensive and inconvenient, and many people disliked taking multiple pills daily. This realization led to the creation of a personalized supplement product that simplified the entire process. Cloud9 relaunched to strong reception fulfilling its mission of making the supplement journey effortless for its customers.

At the core of Cloud9’s mission and values lies a commitment to transparency and efficiency. Khushang was deeply disillusioned by the supplement industry’s lack of accountability, with companies making unfounded claims purely to drive profits. CLD-9’s approach reduces waste and simplifies the customer experience, creating a more sustainable supplement ecosystem. By integrating transparency into every aspect of the business, Khushang hopes to transform the industry into a more trustworthy space for consumers.

“We make the supplement industry a better place.”

Redefining Entrepreneurship at 22

From developing cutting-edge software to creating a fully personalized supplement product, Khushang’s journey was as innovative as it was demanding. The personalization aspect was particularly ambitious: Cloud9 provides 28 million unique combinations of supplements tailored to individual needs. Achieving this level of customization required Khushang to pivot from simply managing a tech company to also founding a robotics company. “We built the world’s first machine that can personalize supplementation down to the milligram,” he explained, highlighting the technological ingenuity behind the venture. Managing these complex demands while maintaining time efficiency was no small feat, especially at such a young age. “Most people build larger startups at 30 or 40. Taking this on at 22 has been a whole other level of stress,” Khushang shared. Yet, he attributes much of his success to surrounding himself with exceptionally talented people who share his vision.

Despite the challenges, Khushang believes that entrepreneurship has fundamentally shaped him as a person. He emphasized that starting a business forces you to quickly master new skills, grow in resilience, and operate at a level far beyond that of your peers. However, he also acknowledges the risks of burnout and the importance of balancing personal health with professional demands. For him, maintaining a healthy lifestyle became essential not just for his well-being but for the success of Cloud9.

“Entrepreneurship is the fastest way to become the best version of yourself.”

Khushang also describes entrepreneurship as “an ability for one person or a team of people to have an active say in what their reality looks like or will look like.” Whether building a business, saving the planet, or forming a community, he believes entrepreneurship is about shaping a vision and bringing it to life. Drawing parallels between Cloud9 and the athletic club he founded at CU Boulder, he reflected on the power of community in achieving shared goals. “The more our members connected with the club’s vision, the bigger our impact became,” he said, a principle he carries forward into his entrepreneurial journey. For Khushang, entrepreneurship is not just about innovation, it’s about a collective vision that inspires others to believe in and contribute to a better future.

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How Volley App is Empowering �鶹��Ժ with Decision Science Technology

Emily Iliff — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 13:00:00 +0000

How Volley App is Empowering �鶹��Ժ with Decision Science Technology Emily Iliff Thu, 12/05/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

The journey behind Volley Solutions, a groundbreaking decision-making platform, is one of innovation, adaptability, and a profound commitment to helping others. Developed by a seasoned entrepreneur with a history of successful ventures, Volley Solutions is designed to guide students through life's toughest choices, from selecting a college to evaluating job offers. These collaborative tools leverage decision science, an often confusing field, to provide clarity, confidence, and actionable insights for its users.

The story of Volley starts with Matthew Brady, a tech entrepreneur with deep roots in Colorado and a passion for using technology to impact lives meaningfully. His career has spanned high-tech startups, including an IoT company sold to Amazon and others in fields like Fin tech and HR tech. Along with being an instructor in the Organizational Leadership & Information Analytics (OLIA) department at the Leeds School of Business at the University of Colorado Boulder, after years of scaling and selling businesses, he shifted focus to creating tools that empower individuals, particularly students, to navigate critical life decisions.

The Birth of Volley

Volley for �鶹��Ժ began with Matt’s realization that while decision science has existed for decades, its practical application remains limited to academia and other professional industries. Inspired by his own college experience at Purdue University, where he first envisioned ways to improve decision-making, Matt embarked on a mission to make decision science accessible to everyone.

“I want to impact people’s lives at scale and help them make decisions they feel confident about, decisions they won’t second-guess.”

�鶹��Ժ are often faced with monumental decisions that shape their futures. From selecting a university to choosing a first job, these choices are compounded with uncertainty and high stakes. By targeting this audience, Matt hopes to not only ease the decision-making process, but also teach foundational skills that users could carry into other aspects of life.

Creating the Volley app involved distilling complex decision science principles into a format accessible to both students and young professionals. The team developed templates for common decisions, such as where to attend college or which job offer to accept, that guide users through defining their criteria, weighing options, and gathering input from trusted advisors.

Another key innovation was integrating journaling capabilities and sentiment analysis using voice recognition and AI. These features allow users to reflect on their choices, providing insights into their decision-making patterns over time.

Volley’s app design focuses on five major decisions students often face: buying a car, choosing housing, selecting a college, relocating to a new city, and accepting a job offer. The platform uses pre-built templates to guide users through their choices. These templates are framed positively. For

instance, transforming "cost" into "value" to encourage thoughtful analysis.

�鶹��Ժ can invite family, friends, and mentors to collaborate in their decision-making process, ensuring a well-rounded perspective. The tools also allow users to record their thoughts, either through text or voice input, which the app then analyzes to provide further insights. This feature helps users decide better by conducting “premortems” and “red teaming”.

Empowering �鶹��Ժ

Alexandra, Matt’s daughter and a recent CU graduate, brings a unique perspective to Volley. Having graduated in May and immediately transitioned into a master’s program, Alex understands the pressures and uncertainties students face during such transitional periods. "Things happen right away and kind of sneak up on you," she shares, emphasizing how crucial it is to make well-informed decisions that benefit both your mental well-being and future.

As someone who has used Volley during its development, Alex highlights its potential to support students in ways that traditional resources often do not. While she notes that her path of pursuing further education immediately after graduation is somewhat straightforward, she sees great value in how the platform could assist peers navigating decisions like where to live or how to transition into post-graduate life. "Figuring out where to live is such an underrated decision," she says, pointing out that many students struggle with what seems like a simple choice to an outsider.

Alex praises Volley’s ability to act as a “secondary coach” for everyday decisions, complementing resources like career services, which focus primarily on internships and jobs. Tools like Volley fill this gap by helping students weigh practical considerations, reduce anxiety, and feel confident in their choices.

Adapting Decision Science for Real-World Impact

The core of Volley Solutions lies in its innovative application of decision science. Using methodologies similar to conjoint analysis, commonly used in consumer goods and automotive industries, the app helps users weigh options and prioritize criteria effectively. Whether evaluating college programs or job offers, Volley’s process turns subjective preferences into data-driven decisions.

The app also incorporates sentiment analysis via natural language processing (NLP), enabling users to reflect on past decisions and adjust their approach for the future. For instance, a student might use Volley to revisit an internship experience, identifying what worked well and what to seek in their next role.

Perhaps most impressive is the platform’s accessibility. Volley Solutions will be free for students, due to Matt's commitment to making impactful tools available to all. By offering the app without paywalls or ads, the team aims to gather feedback to continuously improve user experience.

A Bright Future Ahead

As Volley continues to evolve, its mission remains clear: to empower students with tools and techniques that improve their lives. Whether it’s helping first-generation students navigate uncharted waters or guiding recent graduates toward fulfilling career paths, Volley stands out as a resource for anyone seeking clarity in an often-chaotic world. With a focus on thoughtful decision-making and a dedication to accessibility, Volley Solutions is poised to redefine how students and professionals approach life’s most important choices.

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Creative Distillation - Episode 72: Reversing the Arrow conference with Ryan Coles

Emily Iliff — Thu, 05 Dec 2024 13:00:00 +0000

Creative Distillation - Episode 72: Reversing the Arrow conference with Ryan Coles Emily Iliff Thu, 12/05/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

In this episode of Creative Distillation, hosts Jeff and Brad from the University of Colorado, Boulder, are joined by guests Ryan Coles and Ben Waterhouse for a dynamic discussion on entrepreneurship, research, and sustainability. The conversation explores the value of conferences and networking for building meaningful relationships and intellectual collaborations, Brad's inspiring transition from entrepreneurship to academia, and a thoughtful tasting of Colorado's renowned Laws bourbon. Ryan shares insights from his research on gender dynamics in entrepreneurship and the impact of policy changes, as well as his work on sustainable organizational design and strategies for reducing carbon footprints in businesses.

This episode offers actionable takeaways, thought-provoking dialogue, and a glimpse into the real-world applications of cutting-edge research. Don’t miss this opportunity to engage with innovative ideas and expert perspectives!

Listen to the full episode here.

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The Journey of Susan and Garland Design Group: Building Dreams One Space at a Time

Emily Iliff — Sat, 30 Nov 2024 17:15:49 +0000

The Journey of Susan and Garland Design Group: Building Dreams One Space at a Time Emily Iliff Sat, 11/30/2024 - 10:15

Emily Iliff

Susan and Preston’s paths to founding Garland Design Group were anything but linear, reflecting the resilience and adaptability that define their entrepreneurial spirit. For Susan, growing up in Wisconsin and pursuing her undergraduate degree at the University of Wisconsin-Madison was the start of a journey filled with twists and turns. She began in landscape architecture, but the 2009 recession shifted her career path to buying and planning at Macy’s in New York City, and later to personal training at Equinox. Yet, her love for design never wavered.

Preston, on the other hand, was a Colorado native born and raised in Boulder. After completing a dual degree in biochemistry and marketing at CU Boulder, he worked for his family’s company for nearly a decade before deciding to return to CU for an MBA. It was in the Leeds School of Business that Susan and Preston’s paths finally crossed, forging a partnership that would eventually lead to their entrepreneurial venture.

The CU MBA Experience

Their time at CU Boulder was pivotal. Both Susan and Preston were drawn to the program for its small, supportive cohort, which fostered lasting friendships and collaboration. Susan recalls the “pay-it-forward” culture of alumni helping students navigate the challenges of career building. Case competitions and hands-on learning opportunities further cemented their skills and confidence. Many of their peers and classmates in the MBA program became some of their first clients, showcasing the strong community and networking experience within the program.

This proves that the CU MBA experience is not just about academics, it’s also about community. Many of their closest friendships were forged there, and Susan even credits her time in the program for helping her rediscover her passion for design. With COVID-19 shifting classes online, Susan and Preston made the most of their remote setup by splitting time between Boulder and Gypsum, where Susan worked full-time with an interior design firm in the Vail Valley during her second year.

A Unique Approach to Design

Graduating during the uncertainty of 2021, Susan and Preston took a leap of faith and launched Garland Design Group in July. While most MBA graduates take years to start a business, they chose to dive right in. Preston’s steady role in his family business provided financial stability while Susan pursued her dream of creating a company that seamlessly integrates interior and landscape design.

As mentioned previously, their first major project came from a fellow MBA classmate, who hired them to transform his unfinished basement into a fully functional living space. From there, the referrals started pouring in. Today, Garland Design Group has

helped families remodel homes, restore spaces after disasters like the Marshall Fire, and even tackle large-scale mountain vacation home projects.

What sets Garland Design Group apart is Susan’s ability to merge interior and landscape design, a rare combination in the industry. “As humans, we experience both interiors and exteriors throughout the day,” Preston explains. Their holistic approach connects these spaces, enhancing the way people live inside and outside their homes. From designing functional outdoor kitchens to reimagining cozy living rooms, their work creates harmony between form and function.

Their personal connections with clients have been a cornerstone of their success. Susan reflects, “It’s wonderful to grow with our clients and help them through different life milestones, from young families to retirees.”

Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

Starting a business is never easy, but Susan and Preston believe in the power of persistence, adaptability, and connection. “Be willing to pivot,” Preston advises. “What the market needs might not be what you started with.” For Susan, building relationships has been key. “So much of our business is word of mouth. Put yourself out there, network, and don’t be afraid to be a beginner. You learn as you go.”

The two emphasize that Entrepreneurship can be lonely, but finding a supportive network makes all the difference. Susan encourages reaching out to others in your field, even if they’re not direct competitors. “Sometimes it’s about connecting with someone who’s 10 years ahead of where you want to be,” she advises. Networking, joining groups, and fostering genuine relationships can lead to valuable opportunities and collaborations.

Susan recalls how stepping out of her comfort zone transformed her career. “I used to be shy, but I had to rem

ind myself to act like the ‘mayor’ of the gym,” she shares from her personal training days. The same principle applies to starting a business: approach people with authenticity, develop relationships, and don’t shy away from making connections offline. Many of their projects stemmed from simple conversations with contractors and real estate agents.

Looking Ahead

The future for Garland Design Group is bright. The couple envisions expanding their team to include additional interior and landscape designers while continuing to work closely with clients. They hope to take on more out-of-state projects and further establish their niche as a one-stop shop for holistic design.

Whether helping a family rebuild after tragedy or creating a dream vacation home, Susan and Preston’s work is deeply personal, reflecting their passion for transforming spaces and lives. As they grow their business, their commitment to innovation, community, and client relationships remains at the heart of Garland Design Group’s journey.

In a rapidly changing world, Susan and Preston prove that resilience and vision can turn dreams into reality. Garland Design Group is not just about designing spaces, it’s about creating experiences, fostering connections, and leaving a lasting impact on the lives of their clients.

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Creative Distillation Episode 71 - Reversing the Arrow conference with Dev & Jennifer Jennings

Emily Iliff — Thu, 14 Nov 2024 20:22:53 +0000

Creative Distillation Episode 71 - Reversing the Arrow conference with Dev & Jennifer Jennings Emily Iliff Thu, 11/14/2024 - 13:22

Emily Iliff

Get ready for another fascinating episode of the Creative Distillation Podcast! In this episode, hosts Jeff York and Brad Werner welcome two guests: Jennifer and Dev Jennings, professors at the University of Alberta's School of Business. The conversation takes place on the front porch the Chautauqua Mission House, setting the scene for a deep dive into sustainability, science, and commercialization. And of course, they kick things off by sharing their thoughts on the beverages they’re enjoying: this time, New Terrain Brewing’s Pillow Drops Colorado Pilsner.

Jeff and Brad waste no time diving into the heart of the discussion: Dev Jennings’ fascinating research on the challenges of bringing science-based products and processes to market. From the Alberta tar sands industry to sustainability-focused innovations, Dev offers a unique perspective on the intersection of science, business, and environmental responsibility.

Listeners will hear about Dev’s journey, from his early days in Palo Alto to his time at Stanford’s business school and his work with the Forest Service. He delves into his research on extracting bitumen from tar sands, exploring the environmental implications and the complex process of commercializing innovations. The conversation also sheds light on the difficulties of transferring technology from scientists to corporations and the lack of incentives for collaboration, a critical barrier to progress in the field.

One of the most intriguing parts of the episode focuses on co-design and lifecycle analysis, two tools that Dev and his team use to develop and test products. By involving multiple teams and conducting town hall-style consultations, they were able to co-design solutions that significantly reduced water consumption and pollution. The discussion offers valuable lessons on how collaboration and long-term planning can lead to more impactful innovations.

The episode also touches on an exciting and timely experiment: pitching products to government panels and venture capitalists. Dev explains how his team studied the role of gender and AI in the pitching process. These findings underline the importance of transparency and careful consideration when incorporating AI into research and commercialization.

As the episode wraps up, Dev reflects on the long and often challenging journey of bringing science-based products to market. He emphasizes the importance of collaboration, balancing short- and long-term goals, and keeping scientists engaged with the right incentives.

This episode of Creative Distillation is a must-listen for anyone curious about the intersection of science, business, and sustainability. Whether you’re an entrepreneur, a researcher, or simply a curious mind, this conversation offers fresh insights and inspiring ideas. Tune in now- grab your favorite beverage and join the journey where big ideas brew!

Transcript

Jeff, welcome to another episode of creative distillation. Your hosts, Jeff and Brad from the University of Colorado, Boulder's Leeds School of Business, discuss entrepreneurship research while enjoying fine craft beverages. For this episode, we continue with our guests from the previous episode, Jennifer and Dev Jennings. They're both professors in the department of strategy, entrepreneurship and Management at the University of Alberta's School of Business. They're also the first married couple to appear on creative distillation, as well as the first to enjoy wine. On the podcast, Dev discusses his latest research currently in progress that examines how science based products and processes get passed along to corporations or to startup entrepreneurs, from corporations to be developed for real world application. His paper in progress looks at this through the lens of the Alberta tar sands industry devs findings thus far, which involve not just corporate scientific community interactions, but also observations about gender roles and AI are fascinating, as is the fact that an effort to commercialize a product is at the center of devs project. This action research is another creative distillation. First enjoy and cheers. Welcome to Jeff York 1:41 Creative distillation, where we distill entrepreneurship research into actionable insights. I am your host, Jeff York, Faculty Director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the Leeds School of Business, joined by Brad Werner and Jeff, it Brad 1:52 is great to be with you today. Jeff York 1:54 It is great to be here with you, Brad. We're still on the lovely front porch of the what is it? Where are we? Joe Mission House. Thank you, Joel. Joel is our official memory of the cast. He's actually not drinking anything right now, and we just wrapped up an awesome discussion with Jennifer Jennings, professor at University of Alberta School of Business. And we're now going to talk to her husband, Dev Jennings, about one of his projects, also, professor at the University, Alberta School of Business, and both of them are here for the reversing the arrow conference. And if you want to know what the heck that is, you got to rewind two episodes and find one that says. Robert Eberhart, you're all about it, how it came to be and why it's such a fascinating thing. Dev and Jen, welcome again. Thanks. Time for us to select the new beverage we enjoyed. Oh yeah. Now, Deb, you said you were a beer guy, so, yeah, easier for me, yeah. So what we got, these are all from, probably from Boulder, or at least with that 15 minute dry bulb, we've got new terrain brewing. Pillow drops, Colorado Pilsner. Dev Jennings 2:55 Okay, it's a pilsner. Now, all right, let's Jeff York 2:56 try the pillow drops, okay, we all get a taste of that. And whippery, Jeff, this is new terrain. Okay, where are they? I can't remember where they are, Colorado. Yes, they're in Colorado. Dev Jennings 3:07 It's in a lavendery Purple, yes. So I guess that's the whole Oh, it is featuring a skier. Jeff York 3:13 There's that. Jennifer Jennings 3:14 There you go, Jeff York 3:16 Jen, You stick with the Prosecco. Are you? Oh, we might be out of Prosecco. I don't know. So the new terrain. Yeah, you're welcome. All right. Cheers, everybody. Hey, cheers. I forgot producer, Joe Oh no, yeah, Joel, we just gave him the whole bottle of deviate. You don't know what that is. You got rewind to the last episode, sure. So what do you guys think pillow drops? Dev Jennings 3:39 Yeah. Brad 3:40 Dov, you liking us, Dev Jennings 3:41 yeah, but I don't think I'd be using it just before hitting my pillow. I'd probably have a few of these. Yeah, Brad 3:46 oh yeah, it's Dev Jennings 3:47 pretty nice. Jeff York 3:48 It says pillows of paradise. Okay, now we're talking much like the voluminous foamy cup on a freshly poured Pilsner pillow. Drops are the highly technical ski lines that take you flying through boulder fields capped with mounds of fresh, fluffy powder. This pills has a dry biscuitty malt backbone, delicate floral aromas balanced by some bitterness and a crisp fit. They Dev Jennings 4:09 actually think you should take those pillows. Jeff York 4:18 Hops, traditional Pilsner hop, one of our favorite German pills, as a lot of those hops in it, I could drink this all day. Jeff, yeah, we're gonna have to seek this out. Sorry, new terrain. We're gonna, we're gonna look up where you guys are, find you and come to your name too, right? Yeah, this is delicious. Goes Jennifer Jennings 4:33 with the whole skiing vibe. Yes, yeah. We're Jeff York 4:35 here on the ski line. Dev Jennings 4:36 When I least live in Palo Alto, we would go and go to this little German brewery place and drink a version of like a stop and type beer. Okay, wait, Brad 4:45 so Palo Alto, tell us about your experience there. Oh, I Dev Jennings 4:48 went to grad school, got a master's in a PhD in the Bay Area, right? Yeah, yeah. So I was just living with a bunch of engineers. And how'd you like they were, that's as Brad 4:58 a as a scholar. So that type of background actually could be really Dev Jennings 5:02 cool. It was great. It was a wonderful era, the late, you know, the 80s was wonderful, very interdisciplinary. You could go across departments and hang and do I think my, my extra love of working with science really was from then, right? And that, you know, one of the reasons I chose the paper today is because I've always had a big interest in sustainability. I used to work for the Forest Service many years back, and just before I went to grad school, I was working for the Forest Service. And my first couple summers during grad school, I worked for the Forest Service, and yeah, and so I was in Palo Alto, and there were engineers Forest Service. I was working in the biz school. I was working in sociology. The Stanford biz school paid for my education, right? Yeah, so it was a wonderful place, wonderful place, and still is a wonderful place. I don't even think I can get in anymore, but I was lucky to be in that and I probably couldn't get in. Now, that's Jeff York 5:57 true every school I went to. I was lucky. I went there. I did wouldn't work out today, yeah, so I just remembered, actually, new terrain. I've actually been there, really, it's in golden and it's at the base of a mountain biking trail. So if you're ever in Golden Colorado, there's some really good mountain biking trails right by where this brewery is up. And you it's a massive, hellish climb, like every, every mountain bike ride in Colorado starts like this. It's gonna be a massive, hellish climb, and that's the star of the ride. But then you end up back at the brewery, and it's an awesome, awesome Brad 6:31 I think we need to do a podcast there. Just, yeah, we Jeff York 6:33 definitely need to get down there. It's beautiful. It's right in the shade of a mountain there. So I feel bad I wasn't properly selling new terrain. Great place. Yeah, the beer is great. So, so Dev, we're gonna talk about paper with a sustainability bent to it. Today. We Dev Jennings 6:45 are, we are sustainability and entrepreneurship. So, you know, Jennifer and I, as she mentioned, and in the prior podcast, we do a lot of work together. We're still doing work, including a work on women's entrepreneurs with Jessica Santana, right, right? Yeah, that looks at sort of their discourse in failure. So that's kind of over there. But I've always been super serious about how science based products and processes get passed over to corporations or to startup entrepreneurs, from corporations to be developed for the street or, you know, for use for us, especially for sustainability, right? So in Alberta, we have the oil sands, yeah, and the oil sands is a massive operation, and it has all the majors there, right, working hard on what's called the oil sand, which is bitumen. It's really heavy oil that you know you have to process. It's like, full of sand, and so you have to put it through thing called sag D, essentially, really high heat, with lots of water and chem processing to separate it, right? And then you can distill it off, but then you've got a lot of toxins. And, you know, you can imagine. So there's been Brad 7:49 a big political discussion in the United States transferring the oil sands, or the oil from the oil sands, down through the US to Houston, right, Dev Jennings 7:56 right? And so there's been a lot of backlash, but then there's been a lot of tech development on trying to improve it, right? And so I've been working at when I was at my former job, I used to work on water management. I was between solder and water management and Institute of resource environment as an associate. And then I at Alberta, I became involved in doing future energy systems. And my part in future energy systems was really around water, because I knew about that. And so water and wetland, especially remediation, after you've got these heavy toxins, you know, that have been used in processing. Well, what? What do you do? And we so we have a lot of science guys on campus and in Alberta and around the world, and also down in Texas especially, and some in Colorado, frankly. Who are, you know, piled in with lots of processes, lots of products to try to do cleanup. But it's a very interesting thing. You know, when you're in the biz school, you tend to, oh, you're a startup entrepreneur, you know, you'll go grab a product process, you might do an app. But when you're over, over in the science or engineering departments, as you know, Jeff, you know, you've kind of got this lineage of science or development of that product or that process, and you have to really leverage off that right? And then you go, Okay, well, we're going to do oil sands, but we got to do this chemistry, that chemistry, that chemistry, that product, that product, and each of these products is based off that science. Then it gets developed, and then it gets chucked over the fence magically to a corporation or to an entrepreneur, and then you just hope, you know, when you chuck it over the fans to shell, or you chuck it over to Exxon Mobil, or you chuck it over to sin crude, they pick it up, yeah, Brad 9:29 through tech transfer, yeah, yeah, but also literally Dev Jennings 9:33 through patent license, right? Tech trend, yeah, all versions, but not Brad 9:36 a lab. It gets there's some sort of IP and now it's on the shelf, yeah, but Dev Jennings 9:41 it's, you sit in the same room. No, it comes out of lab, but you sat in the same room with the development process, with these guys. I mean, you know, you're from Exxon, and you're looking at it, and they're there, and they're literally, you're, you're at the end process, and they're in the same room, some of the same guys, and there's now, like, Okay, now you take it and. Literally chucking. It's literally a handoff. And the thing is, I'm not gonna, I don't I want to be a scientist. I want to develop the next one, Brad 10:09 right? Actually, to continue the development of that technology, to commercialize, Dev Jennings 10:14 you do and you don't. You need the grad students who were on that particular product to maybe consult or be licensed, but then you'll hand it over to somebody else who has been trained in chemistry or trained in this to take care of that. Often they're on the corporate side, not on that side, right? And so there's this handoff, chuck it over. And you hope the handoff is smooth, like in a relay race, but it's chucked over the fence or, you know, they receive it. Well, yeah. And so there's, there's quite a there's a big way, back when I was a grad student, there used to be this thing was developed called the Integrated circuits lab on campus, which was trying to, you know, bridge between business community like the biz school, and I was between social and business. And so I was design and that, and tried to make an integrated statement. And it failed, right? Right? Because there weren't incentives. It almost does, right? So the question then is, how do you actually put incentives in there to keep the science guys engaged, to work with the corporation, and at the same time make sure that when you get down the road, the community isn't the one that's like holding the bag interesting, right? I mean, that's really the question. How do you do it? So you get all three players so that you can improve that the handoff process? Yeah, right. And it's not a simple one, and there are lots of answers that people work on. But I thought, well, you know, this is something that seems super important to me, then people want to know Jeff York 11:34 the answer. Was a critical question. So important everyone. Essentially, you actually seem like all the technologies so, so not even technologies where there might be negative externalities the community and things like that, but things that like, where there's a positive externality that we desperately need to be commercialized as quickly as possible. So I'm thinking a lot about like down the road, near new terrain, actually, in Golden Colorado, is the national Noble Energy Lab, right? And I had a thing where I would work with them to have people bring technologies to my class in renewable energy and just introduce the technology, and then the students would try to figure out how to commercialize it over a period of semester Exactly. And of course, nobody ever did at all. But, gosh, I'm not trying to throw them under the fence. They do a lot of things besides this. I mean, they do amazing job of a lot of commercialization efforts, and then the lab is very complex. There's a lot, but I was kind of thinking to myself, like, wow. Like they would even spend time on this, like, having these students, like, just kind of screw around, shows how hard this process is, where they're willing just to try a lot of different things. Yeah, Dev Jennings 12:35 and this is the National Laboratory. That's a national laboratory, so, yeah, Jeff York 12:40 they're clueless. I mean, yeah, sure, we'll do this one actually. That's not physically possible, but sure try. So Dev Jennings 12:47 anyway, yeah. So my engineer buddies, you know, in grad school, I would talk to them about that, and also UBC, I observed things. So we did this one project just on the side, but it is relevant with the City of Richmond and British Columbia in Vancouver itself. And it was called the 50 year out planning. And we had, like, a simulation that was done 50 years out. And I put in the organization data other people, and you ran with city council, so you had the mayor there, yeah, and, you know? And they sat and they looked and they and then they made a policy for 10 years out, 20 years out, 30 years out, right? And then they said, well, now we're gonna commit to doing what was called the greening of Richmond. We're gonna put riparian edges. We're gonna do a bit on this, on the subway, of this, this change, this change in LED lights. And then three years later, one thing out of 20 was done. Yep, right. So, pattern, right? And so I always worried about that. I'm like, Oh, how do we, how do we actually get engagement, like you said, with the students, in a way that improves it? So the idea was in this paper, and with the science guys, is, okay, how can you know you've made a difference, and how do you actually get that engagement? So we said, Okay, let's take these products where that you want to sell. In this case, biochars are, like, super common. They're the standard product that everybody uses, like your bread of water filter. Yeah. Water Filter, you know, or any pool filter, you know, has charcoal in it, right? And so you activate that in a particular way, and that's like the standard private then you have a novel product. And we looked at a couple, like, one is this thing called chicken feathers. But you when you, interestingly, when you take chicken feathers off the farm and you put it through heavy acids, and you can cart it, just like your fingernail, into little serrated things, just like Chautauqua up there, where you've got the flat iron. Just run it right across the flat irons, and it pulls the colloidal mixture off. So it's exactly like that. So you can use that, or you can use nano solar and the little nano solar chips that take the light and then they refract it and do the chlorination type process like that. So there are three types, and we were, we looked at three types, and we ended up in what the paper in two types. So, you know, the chicken feathers was like, the more novel and versus more standard. And you're like, Okay, how can we induce people to get the more novel product? And in back it right? Of these three players, the core. Operations, these science guys are pushing it and then the community. Okay, so the real problem is the science says that the chicken feathers just doesn't process oil sands process water toxins as well as chicken feathers, like most novel products, right? So science is saying we want to develop this is new, but it's not quite as efficient yet, you know? Because that's how lots of early stage products are, you know, right? And so it says that. And it says also, the wetland design needs to be tweaked so there's more circulation of water. So, but still, let's back that. And so the standard science guys are saying that, right? And so it's cool, the business guys are saying, well, no, you know, no, right? It's too expensive for all that time is and also, you know, do we need that in the community? Folks are going, Hey, are you gonna ask us anything? Right? Because normally you ask those two and then you go to a town hall or a community consultation, and you present, this is the best science. And, yeah, right. And then people put stickies on this, and they go, maybe we'll do that. And then you walk out and you do what you were going to do, right? So we, Jennifer Jennings 16:08 at one point, we came up with the cutesy, academic part of the title that goes before the colon. We thought a really cute one would be, would you like your waist charred or feathered? Sorry, I yeah, Dev Jennings 16:23 that title has not been lost yet. I'm Jeff York 16:26 sure the reviewers Dev Jennings 16:29 will sort of around that title. Jeff York 16:32 This always happens when I have a cool title, like, you get to the like, the last round, I just don't like the title. I'm like, Dude, this was Jennifer Jennings 16:39 so fun. We love doing that. Yes. Isn't that fun? Dev Jennings 16:41 I'm good with that. We haven't lost it, which is good. I'm glad you think it's great, Brad, because that matters. Brad 16:50 Here's the other thing is, I've been helping scientists for a lot of my life, commercialized technology, yeah? Well, then Dev Jennings 16:56 you recognize, yeah. I mean, I'm I love this, right? Yeah, so, so. But then, based on my priors, how do I actually know that you can make a difference? So we chose this version of CO design. My buddy at IDEO had been working on CO design, co design, but there are different ways of doing co design and deep co design. So, you know, we literally went to stakeholders now burrow oil sands and solicit them data. Wintered it down to people who lived there. And then we got 12 teams of one type using Town Hall, and then 12 teams doing co design. And in the CO design, they were working with people who knew the science, with a corporation, person and the group, and they were, you know, given the same spiel and the town hall versus the other. But then the CO design teams were allowed to work with the oil sand product and try to put it in a wetland and choose the chicken feathers versus the biochar. They had the choice he was, like a lot of cooks in the kitchen, though, no, just Yeah, but they're only six people, because we put each of these six person teams so that you have the intermediary was trained, and you had a corporate person. Then you had these other folks who were from oil sands, you know, community, and then they, like, said, Okay, what do we want at the end? Now we took that and then we married it with what's called lifecycle analysis. And, you know, lifecycle analysis, so you've got the immediate impact of the product, but then we're in sustainability, so you want to know the longer range impact, right course. So we took lifecycle analysis, we ran the numbers by inputting their preferences, their new product, what they cared about, and then we tweaked the lifecycle analysis to actually then look at, okay, after feedback, which of the the CO design with this product, is it actually any better? Okay, when you include these guys, and it was, it cut down on water consumption, and it cut down your trophication, it cut down on Carson. Brad 18:36 When you include these guys, what exactly does that mean? That means Dev Jennings 18:39 like, Okay, I'm going to talk to you for a half hour about what the talk today. I'm going to give you this paper. I'm going to put all the pieces on the table, just like a Lego thing. You're going to put this wetland together. Which one do you like? Then you're going to score it after based on the same scoring system as the town hall guys, and you're going to see and then we're going to rate it based on an expert inter rater over here to check it, and then we're going to go and take it, we're going to run it in life cycle analysis. And we actually went through the labs. We went to the oils, and we we measured all all the stages of the life cycle, from farm all the way through the wetland, all the way back to run the LCA with these numbers, you Jeff York 19:16 guys are doing this as your research project. Yeah, yeah. And you just partnered with this organization or this group that was trying to actually do this commercial. Dev Jennings 19:23 No, I've been working you're at the science department. So this is, actually, this is, this is you say my team of, your team is working on, this is my team of so you're Jeff York 19:32 like, kind of doing this. Like, I mean, I don't want to call it action research, but Dev Jennings 19:37 we work with three scientists, like, you know, Muhammad and his teams and stuff, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're great. So Jeff York 19:43 okay, yeah, to clarify that for listeners, because you know now we talk about, we're not usually talking actually doing something. No, no, it's Brad 19:51 like an embedded reporter. Yeah, right, yeah. No, we're embedded with, with the with a developmental team, or the scientist scientific team. Yeah, we Dev Jennings 19:58 are cool. Do. Yeah, part of the science development, yeah, that's awesome team, right? Brad 20:04 That's a first for us. Jeff, actually, oh, two. First Jeff York 20:09 number one, we drank wine. Yeah, Brad 20:12 married couple, but actually embedded with a scientist or embedded, right? That are developing a well. So Jeff York 20:19 I've talked about some work where I was, like, embedded and part of the steering committee for something I was studying. This is different. Brad 20:26 This is totally different. Not Dev Jennings 20:30 about you, Jeff. This is wind studies. No, your studies on wind and things are like, you know, various, various renewables are like, brilliance. No, that AMJ paper is low. There we go. But Jeff York 20:48 I had nothing to do with wind energy. Like, I like, literally going afterwards and like talking to people, like, what do you think about wind energy? You were there? Like, I remember when they protested because it was going to give us all brain cancer. Oh, wow. Okay, that's interesting. But you're actually, like, trying to help commercialize a project, right? Yeah? And you're a part of the project. That's Dev Jennings 21:10 fascinating, yeah? And so the improvement part now, the second stage of the project, which we just ran the experiment on and are about to run in the field, is to take those products, and then we've got in the chucking over the fence. One of the main things that you do with like the novel product at this stage, at least in that part of the world, even with oil sands, is you can give it to corporate and they can run it, but sometimes they'll want to use seed funding and panel funding and let somebody else do the in between. Stage, right? Yeah, sure. Of like, pre beta, beta, like, you know, developments, are Brad 21:42 they funding the research? Corporates Dev Jennings 21:43 are funding there? Are they funding the research the future energy systems is based on the carbon tax and others that gave the big, grand funding. So the big, the overall grant funding is 75 mil for a bunch of oil sands related projects like this is one of 11, okay, of that, and so that came from a big fund based on carbon taxes and a bunch of things. So yes and no, right? Yeah, but I wanted to be clear, no, no, because that's important, as you say, it is important, right as to what your affiliation is, right stuff. So, but again, you guys care a lot about the positive and negative side of, you know, helping corporations. So, you know, I work in a business school because, and not a social department, environmental department, because people need jobs, and people need work, and you got to make changes that work for, you know, everybody can embrace the environment. Jeff York 22:36 I mean, things are actually gonna I mean, yeah, so I'm often trying to convince, like, Doc students over in environmental studies to come over and get this. They're great students too. They're brilliant, like, we also masters of environment programs and and they always want to stay in the Environmental Studies. I'm just like, they feel like they're selling out. And I'm just like, but guys like, if you're just talking to people who already believe what you're saying. There's no change. Aren't going to make any ability to actually implement that. Yeah, I don't know. I just, I mean, obviously I'm completely biased, but I think you can make a real difference in a business school. And I think, you know, unfortunately, we're at the point now where only solutions are going to possibly emerge, any kind of relevant time for environmental problems, are gonna have to come through business, yeah, Brad 23:23 and you have to make an economic case for it. You can't preach to someone to say, just change this because it's better for the environment. I wish this wasn't true, right? But just but this is the reality, right? But if you can show an economic reason why to change, that makes the discussion much easier. Dev Jennings 23:38 Yeah. I mean, if there are a lot of things you need to do, all of us need to do a bunch of things. But for me, I you know you can't, you can't leave organizations out of the equation. No, it's like there's just, especially in North America and the states in the world, the organizations make a huge difference. And so if you can't get those folks on side and science on side, the ability to change things is just Brad 24:01 drama, outsourcing research, though, yeah, no, they Dev Jennings 24:05 do core research and they outsource it. You know, corporations are, it depends on the company. Honestly, shells, shells unit is different than Exxon Mobil's unit is different than syncrudes. It's yeah, and where they actually locate their expertise in Europe versus North America? Why not? All vary quite a lot, but there's a lot of expertise around so trying to figure out how to drop it into any project is one of the things in this one like, what level of expertise is getting dropped in from these guys? And how do you do it so that it doesn't derail it, but it's incorporated, right? So Jeff York 24:37 you guys are doing these, these two dual process. You basically have these two product approaches to Dev Jennings 24:41 this problem, yeah, on two types of wetlands. The two wetlands are one, like, has all the bells and whistles, and one is much more naturally constructed. And there are two other intermediate types that are both in the actual experiment, right? But we just think of these things, yeah, yeah. We're horse racing, yeah, yeah. And Jeff York 24:57 so what'd you find, like, what's the, what's the, what Dev Jennings 24:59 do you think. Found that the nationally constructed one with chicken feathers over the course of one month through multiple rounds, will still be good enough, okay, to actually deal with it, but over the life cycle analysis, it actually is better. Wow. So yeah, long term, so short term, that's long term versus short, but also cheap versus expensive, but also big science versus small size, right? So Jeff York 25:21 that's a lot of challenges to stand up. Yeah, corporations is like, we're worried about the quarterly earnings. And so you make the cheapest possible decision, that actually is not the cheapest possible decision, not even just from a from an environmental perspective or a social perspective, but from the economic perspective. But you still make that choice, because all we care about is quarterly earnings. And Brad 25:39 actually, quarterly earnings disclosures are part of the problem, right? Exactly. I Jeff York 25:43 mean absolutely. So yeah. Dev Jennings 25:44 And so the next stage is, is you know how to pitch these things? Right? Yes. And so we're taking we are in our pitch experiment. We ran a male versus a female scientist running the novel versus standard product in front of government panels in the experiment. And we had first experiment was just vignette experiment with, you know, folks judging it. And the second experiment is actually with this, the seed funders both a VC type and a government type, in order to see which, you know, which of that two by two pairing. Okay, so does a woman. Normally, in research, we know that women, on average, on novel products, will be penalized more than men. Usually put a lead male, you know, senior scientist. And we also did better known versus less well known person. And that came up that way so far in the results. We also did a tweak on it. We ran one condition where all of it was done by the human, the other condition, the script and the slides and everything were all done by AI. And we want to see whether, you know, AI and Jen, you know, would be able to help us in some way to on sustainability, to get these things across more clearly, and whether. And then we had to reveal, like, Okay, guess what? All this was done by AI, by this person, not by that person, right? And so then we tried to reveal and then we wanted to see whether the female scientists would be punished more. And we can't, I can't tell you the results, because they're only, like three weeks old. But when you look at the simple results without controls, it looks like there's it's not what you expect. People were thinking, you see a lot more spread of the results. Certainly some people did punish the female scientist more, but not routinely, no, no. And people were like, okay, there either there's a big deal like NIH in the States is said, no, no, no use of no use of AI and grant writing or this or that. But then plus, and science reported that 25% ish of folks were using it, are using and constructing their grants and stuff. So I'm like, Well, you got to be able to world Right, right. What's the punishment factor after owning up, right? Or if somebody reveals it on panel, or somebody finds out, right? So we wanted to look at the punishment factor too, for men versus women. Interested scientists to see whether we could get over that, to get to better, you know, rollouts So, but Jeff York 28:06 there wasn't a consistent effect of punishing women. No, no, no, AI, but there was for the novel technology. Dev Jennings 28:14 But the novel technology seems like it was getting it was like, Well, do we really? It's almost people, like, there are too many credibility factors, right? With the AI, plus the novel, plus that, are you? Are you using it to, like, hype me sell. That's why, when you mentioned Matt and stuff on the hype thing, I've been, you know, we've been thinking about, you know, well, first Brad 28:36 of all, I know breakfast and Okay, so the first finding is going to get you Brexit. The second finding, though, I think is really interesting because, like, groups like the NIH, I don't understand why they don't kind of recognize what reality is and just say, okay, findings are findings. Why is there this bias against AI, yeah, we don't even that's Jennifer Jennings 29:01 a whole other podcast. Dev Jennings 29:04 No, you know, those are just tools, though, that they are tools, but they're very they're very rapidly evolving, complex tools that people are trying to figure out how to use. So, and I just finished teaching a data analytics class in the winter to the MBAs undergrad combined and and in it we, for instance, I ran a quant and a qual problem. So the quant problem was, you know, creating four data sets and a quadrant sort of scenario based on what was a regression equation of a startup's earnings. Okay? And I messed with the I messed with the intercept, so I knew the equation was wrong. And then I got him to run it in, you know, chat, GPT, four plus. And I got him to run it, I guess I shouldn't mention all these things, but, yeah, somewhere else, Gemini, but, but anyway, I ran Gemini. And the thing is, I mean, a wants to please, so it generated the four, and the approximations were pretty close. So the upside it would generate, but it wouldn't generate like, oh. This is incorrect. It wants to say this is correct within so the real answer was blah. So it became close, but it wouldn't say this is actually Brad 30:09 so if you understand the bias, though, if Dev Jennings 30:12 you understand but then, when I ran on the sustainability thing, like, Okay, on this particular sustainability problem with water, with this toxin, here's what it is, okay, yeah, what would you do in terms of policy with this? It generated nice lists of policies, and then you could drill down and drill down, and it was nowhere close to what the policy was in the region by the end of Brad 30:39 it. So was and so, I mean, how does this happen? Well, Dev Jennings 30:42 some people call it hallucinating, but I would just call it, you know, that's just reached the logical conclusion. But it was no, but it was like, you know, a gap between what was there. So, so you got to be super careful. And so prompting, we were very careful with our prompts, sure, and we didn't use an avatar, you know, we didn't use that we we'd already pre tested so we could equalize across the four cells. So people couldn't actually tell very well between the senior female this that, you know, there was enough range in the values that it wasn't, it was only when AI was put in where you saw differences. So So you have to be very careful, and that's just the stage we're at where people need to experiment a lot and be super cautious. But as you say, you know that's just where it is, and it's better to be transparent and own up. Yeah, totally agree. And Brad 31:35 if we're sitting here 100 years from now, who knows? Yeah, right. I mean it's gonna be really yeah, Dev Jennings 31:43 oh, I agree with that, right? It's Jeff York 31:45 yeah. It reminds me, yeah. I think it's like a more extreme version of the.com boom that is actually going to have far more reaching impacts than and now I'm saying this on the podcast. I guess I'll have to stick with it. But like, I just remember, like, the whole creation No, not the creation there. And, I mean, when Al Gore created the internet for us, but I just remember the whole, like, I remember Amazon being founded, you know, Google, hey, Dev Jennings 32:09 I used to use ARPANET files across campus, Jeff York 32:16 Brent, like, pitch for Google. Like, I mean, for, like, Angel rounds, like, and everybody's just like, ah, we got Alta Vista. What's that stupid? It's a no search engine. And now look where. I mean, so it's like, the implications of AI are much greater, though, and I think the unexpected, both positive and negative aspects of it, are going to be revealed in time. Dev Jennings 32:38 You know? What really helps is living with a technophile. She keeps me super honest. No no, because honestly, like, we've had this discussion with our entrepreneurship grad students and whatnot, like, how do we run exams now be given that AI and chatgpt are there and whatnot. And so she was one of the first ones to bring it up, being worried about technology. So you need that sort of positive right view. Let's embrace it view, along with a really skeptical like, you know, where are we view? And you need to embrace that as a person or have somebody else, but Brad 33:13 if you're sophisticated user, though you understand the downsides. What could come out of your search results or your your query? Yeah, Dev Jennings 33:21 but I still think, like on, you know, CEO or, man, you know how, how VCs will always set up teams. I mean, if you're setting up a team now in Gen AI or whatnot, you'd want somebody super critical, super skeptical, on your top management team of, honestly, you know, in the same way, at one point, you'd have a lawyer in the room on blah, blah, blah. Now you want somebody who's like an ultra skeptic, who knows things in order to keep you honest. I think I Jeff York 33:47 love that. Actually, that's cool. Yeah. Oh, back the paper, though. Actually, what do you think? Like, what is your main takeaway from this paper? Like, for people that are trying to address these problems, there's so many people that have great intentions, they're struggling so hard. Yes, Dev Jennings 34:00 I know. I just think that, you know, we all one of the takeaways is it's, it's a long journey, and just keep going at it and work hard with the folks as best you can, like scientists, care a lot, you know, the community folks, the corporations. They care a lot, if you can get them together, engaged in a way to co design, where people can figure out an incentive. Yeah, they'll do it. They will do it. They will do it. You're figuring out Jeff York 34:26 a collective, or at least different incentive. This is much like entrepreneurship, where you talk about letting people see what they want to see in the project, so they can create their own incentive in some ways, right? At least, that's why I always think about it, letting people see what they want to see and not be like, No, it's not about this. Oh, I just made you not want to do and Dev Jennings 34:43 it's not all Kumbaya, because you have a bunch of folks who in the in among the stakeholders. When we measure the, you know, we had extremes here in polls. We had wedge politics, right? And when we ran the measures to try to pull things together, we deliberately truncated the tails. Yeah, we. Literally took only the 75% Oh, centrist on the weights and tails, not the extremes. Yeah. And, you know, somebody's got to make decisions that say the tails have to be out of this part of the solution if we're going to get any modal stuff that works for the majority of folks. No, I'm just saying that as a takeaway, and it goes down to into the field, right down to the science itself, because that those things become wedged up later on, in a much worse fashion. Okay, right? Honestly. And so if you can avoid the wedging early, you can avoid more wedging later, okay, is one of the other takeaways, very Jeff York 35:41 cool. So a paper, we can't point you to it. It's not published yet. This Dev Jennings 35:45 project has been going five and a half, six years. That's quick in this world. It's gonna go a couple more years. Yeah, Jeff York 35:55 I think we're gonna So, yeah, well, I'll talk about that interview someone who presented their paper at this conference. Not this conference, but the next one we're doing, the Global Entrepreneurship innovation conference. Kirk, thank you. But anyway, they presented it, the last one that happened, which was well before the pandemic, and they just got published it. That's, that's pretty quick. Yeah. They were like, Oh, it took forever. Like, Dev Jennings 36:19 no, yeah. And there are many other things that could come out of this, but, yeah, you only have so much capacity. That's true. Jeff York 36:25 Yeah. Well, Dev and Jen, thank you again for joining us. You're enjoying your visit to Colorado. Absolutely. We're thrilled to have you here. Yeah, I think we better go on over to the barbecue and grab some food before it's all gone. Thanks everybody. Jeff York, Faculty Director at the Leeds School of Business dipping Center for Entrepreneurship. I Brad 36:43 am Brad Werner, and it was great to have both of you on thanks. Jeff York 36:46 A pleasure. Yeah. Dona L 36:54 This episode of creative distillation was recorded on the front porch of the Chautauqua mission house at the reversing the arrow conference held in Boulder in June 2024 devs paper is yet to be titled and is still in progress. Learn more about dev Jennings on his faculty page at the University of Alberta website. We'd love to hear your feedback and ideas, email us at cdpodcast@colorado.edu and please be sure to Subscribe to Creative distillation wherever you get your podcasts. The creative distillation podcast is made possible by the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado, Boulder's Leeds School of Business. For more information, please visit deming.colorado.edu that's D, E, M, I, N, G, and click the creative distillation link. Creative distillation is produced by Joel Davis at analog digital arts. Our theme music is whiskey before breakfast, performed by your humble host, Brad and Jeff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here next week for the next round of creative distillation.

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Meet the Founder of Pastificio, Pioneering Clean and Sustainable Food

Emily Iliff — Thu, 14 Nov 2024 13:00:00 +0000

Meet the Founder of Pastificio, Pioneering Clean and Sustainable Food Emily Iliff Thu, 11/14/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

Claudia Bouvier, a native of São Paulo, Brazil, is a master of reinvention. Trained as a civil engineer, she graduated from the Polytechnic School of the University of São Paulo and embarked on a distinguished career in construction management. Her work took her across Brazil and the United States, where she contributed to major projects for industry leaders like Turner Construction.

While her career flourished, Claudia always wanted to create something of her own. In 2015, she decided to pursue a master’s degree in Engineering Management at the University of Colorado Boulder. Drawn by the university’s proximity to her home in Boulder and her husbands alumni connection, Claudia found CU to be a natural fit. CU’s community, which she describes as the “heart of Boulder,” offered Claudia not only academic growth but also the inspiration and connections she needed to start her next chapter.

The Birth of Pastificio

Claudia’s inspiration for Pastificio stemmed from her Italian heritage and a lifelong connection to food. Food had always been central to her life, especially after becoming a mother. She sought to feed her two daughters with meals that were not only delicious but also nutritious, sustainable, and responsibly sourced. This personal

mission evolved into a broader vision: creating a brand that embodies better-for-you food, sustainability, and community impact.

Catalyze CU, an incubator for startups, was a turning point for the creation and execution of Pastificio. While many participants focused on tech or engineering innovations, Claudia introduced her passion for food. The program encouraged her to form a team, and she brought together three female engineers to support the early stages of the business. Pastificio’s journey began with research, customer feedback, and a commitment to its core mission: producing high-quality, organic pasta made from heirloom and ancient grains.

Pastificio stands out for its commitment to tradition and innovation. The brand’s pasta is crafted from organic heirloom and ancient wheat varieties, which are more nutritious, flavorful, and digestible than modern grains. Claudia and her team prioritize sustainability at every step, from sourcing and milling freshly ground flour to the artisanal methods used in pasta production. Their small-batch process includes low-temperature drying to preserve nutrients and flavors, ensuring a high-quality product.

The company took an unconventional approach to product development, applying lean startup principles in a unique way. Claudia used the Boulder Farmers Market as a dynamic testing ground, refining recipes and gathering customer feedback in real time. This hands-on, iterative process allowed Pastificio to create a product deeply aligned with its customers' preferences.

Pastificio has since grown beyond the farmers market to secure placements in Whole

Foods across the Rocky Mountain region, King Soopers, and Ralph’s in California, among others. The brand continues to support local farmers by sourcing wheat directly from them and even selling pasta back to farmers for use in their CSA programs. This circular economy model reflects Claudia’s deep commitment to community and sustainability.

Overcoming Challenges in the Food Industry

Building a food brand is not for the faint of heart, and Claudia faced her share of challenges. Capital was a constant constraint. Claudia and her business partner, Ted, took a conservative, self-funded approach, avoiding the pitfalls of over-leveraging. “We weren’t willing to raise a lot of money and just hope for the best,” Claudia explains. Instead, they focused on gradual growth, using the farmers market as a pilot program before scaling to retail.

Other challenges included navigating shared commissary kitchens, breaking into a food system dominated by larger brands, and addressing inefficiencies in small-batch production. Claudia notes that their mission-driven approach—prioritizing quality, sustainability, and tradition—often clashed with the economic realities of the CPG industry. Yet, her persistence paid off. Whole Foods became Pastificio’s first major retailer, recognizing the brand’s unique value and helping it expand across the Rocky Mountain region.

A Community-Driven Business Model

Even as Pastificio grew, Claudia remained committed to her roots. The brand continues to work closely with local farmers, sourcing wheat directly and selling finished products back to them for distribution through farm stands and CSAs. This symbiotic relationship underscores Claudia’s belief in the power of community and the importance of supporting small-scale agriculture.

Beyond the farmers market, Pastificio has expanded into major retailers like King Soopers and Ralph’s, as well as a growing number of independent stores across the West and East coasts. Yet, Claudia’s pride in the brand’s community connections remains unwavering. “To this day, we are still working with the same farmers we started with,” she says, emphasizing the importance of long-term relationships and mutual support.

Looking Ahead: Scaling with Integrity

Claudia envisions a bright future for Pastificio. Her goal is to grow the brand into a national presence while staying true to its mission. This means continuing to innovate in product development, expanding e-commerce capabilities, and exploring new retail opportunities. Claudia also hopes to make her products more accessible by improving production efficiency and reducing costs.

At the heart of her vision is a desire to inspire change. Claudia dreams of a food system where clean, sustainable, and nutritious food is the norm rather than the exception. She hopes Pastificio can serve as a model for how small brands can prioritize integrity and still succeed in the marketplace. From compostable packaging to working with heritage grains, every aspect of Pastificio reflects a commitment to sustainability and better food.

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The Story of Mesa Quantum and the Entrepreneur Who Defied the Odds

Emily Iliff — Thu, 07 Nov 2024 13:00:00 +0000

The Story of Mesa Quantum and the Entrepreneur Who Defied the Odds Emily Iliff Thu, 11/07/2024 - 06:00

Emily Iliff

For many, Boulder Colorado, is a beautiful town positioned at the foot of the Rocky Mountains, known for its scenic views and vibrant lifestyle. But for some, it’s the heart of groundbreaking quantum research, attracting bright minds from across the globe. Sristy Agrawal, a young physicist with a bold vision for the future of quantum research, found her calling at CU Boulder.

With a background in physics and an undergrad degree from India, she traveled internationally during her studies, gaining diverse research experience in Japan and France. Driven by her fascination with quantum physics, she set her sights on a PhD in the United States. CU Boulder’s renowned quantum program, particularly its AMO (Atomic, Molecular, and Optical Physics) curriculum, cemented her decision. She landed in Boulder, a town that not only offered academic prestige but was also, as she puts it, “just so beautiful.”

Choosing the US for her PhD was a calculated decision influenced by a mix of academic structure, language accessibility, and personal reasons. The American PhD system, with its longer duration and flexible curriculum, allowed her to explore different research areas before committing fully- a freedom not often afforded in Europe’s more rigid programs. Her fiancé had also come to the US for his PhD, adding a personal touch to her academic choice.

Misunderstandings and Quantum Discoveries

Stristys path soon led her into the entrepreneurial space, a world where physics PhDs are rare players. She had been curious about startups and wanted to learn the basics of business. To her surprise, CU Boulder’s New Venture Challenge (NVC) provided the perfect gateway.

Her foray into entrepreneurship started with a simple classroom requirement: to pitch a business idea in the NVC competition. But launching a startup isn’t quite like publishing a research paper. Words like “pitch deck” and “term sheet” were alien to her. Determined to learn, she joined Brad’s New Venture Launch course, which introduced her to the language of entrepreneurship. The course not only familiarized her with business essentials but also culminated in participation in the NVC, where she pitched her idea for Mesa Quantum.

Building Mesa Quantum

The inspiration behind Mesa Quantum came from her observation of the quantum field. Quantum computing had taken center stage in the public eye, yet she believed its potential applications were years, if not decades, away. Meanwhile, she saw immediate, tangible opportunities in quantum sensing: a technology with the potential to transform GPS systems and beyond. Mesa Quantum focuses on creating resilient GPS alternatives to strengthen tech dependent infrastructure.

But building a tech startup isn’t for the faint of heart. With no business background and limited entrepreneurial support as an international student, she faced significant obstacles. Additionally, the technical complexity of her work meant that even experienced investors struggled to understand her pitch. Undeterred, she refined her message, learning to distill complex quantum concepts into digestible insights. Since its inception, Mesa Quantum has won acclaim and considerable funding. The company’s successes include the $125,000 Lab Venture Challenge, the $300,000 Rice Business Pitch Competition, and several other notable accolades. These wins haven’t just provided funding; they’ve validated the company’s vision and attracted industry attention.

A Quantum Chip for the Future: Mesa’s Vision and Mission

Mesa Quantum’s innovation addresses a critical gap in our tech ecosystem. Our current GPS systems are vulnerable to attacks and disruptions, as seen in recent global conflicts. Mesa Quantum aims to integrate GPS functionality directly into hardware, using a small quantum chip to enable timing precision without relying entirely on satellites. This approach could enhance resilience in GPS-reliant applications, from telecommunications to defense.

In the years ahead, she envisions Mesa Quantum leading the charge in quantum sensing technology. From autonomous driving to resilient communication systems, Mesa Quantum aims to reshape various sectors through innovative quantum solutions. As she puts it, “I want us to be the quantum sensing company.”

Overcoming Hurdles: Lessons in Resilience and Teamwork

Entrepreneurship, especially in a field as niche as quantum sensing, comes with its share of hardships. Language barriers, visa restrictions, and the daunting need to pitch “deep tech” to a largely unfamiliar audience were daily challenges. The biggest lesson? Surround yourself with a team that complements your weaknesses. Her co-founder, for instance, brought essential experience in nanoengineering and deep familiarity with US military contracts—critical assets for Mesa’s mission.

As Sristy reflects on her journey, she sees Mesa Quantum as more than just a company, it’s a testament to the power of vision and resilience. From navigating complex physics concepts to bridging cultural divides, her story embodies the spirit of perseverance in the face of odds. In a rapidly advancing field where each breakthrough seems out of reach, Sristy’s resolve and her team’s energy have propelled Mesa Quantum forward, turning ideas into impactful innovations. Boulder is now the birthplace of a company with the potential to revolutionize critical infrastructure and redefine the boundaries of quantum sensing. For Sristy, the journey of Mesa Quantum is only beginning, and her vision shines as a light for future pioneers in science and entrepreneurship.

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Creative Distillation Episode 70 - Bryn Rees, Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation

Emily Iliff — Thu, 31 Oct 2024 19:05:00 +0000

Creative Distillation Episode 70 - Bryn Rees, Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation Emily Iliff Thu, 10/31/2024 - 13:05

Emily Iliff

Get ready for a Halloween-themed episode like no other! This week on the Creative Distillation Podcast, it's the annual Halloween twist, joined by Jeff York and Brad Werner from CU Boulder’s Leeds School of Business. They're diving deep into entrepreneurship with special guests Bryn Rees, Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation, and Emily Iliff, the Marketing Director of the podcast. The episode is packed with fall fun: Jeff and Brad swap stories about their Halloween traditions, sip on festive pumpkin beers, and even try unique cocktails crafted by Ethan Decker at Boulder’s own Pits and Stems.

It’s not all treats and cocktails- Bryn and the team explore the exciting shifts in CU Boulder’s entrepreneurial scene, from innovative tech transfer to the remarkable New Venture Launch program. the episode wraps up with Halloween costume chats, horror film recommendations, and inspiring stories on the highs and lows of entrepreneurship. Join in for spooky sips, startup insights, and the Halloween spirit with the Creative Distillation crew, it's a seasonal special you won't want to miss!

To listen to the full episode, please click here.

Transcript

Welcome to another episode of creative distillation. Your host, Jeff and Brad from the University of Colorado, boulders, Leeds School of Business, discuss entrepreneurship research while enjoying fine craft beverages. Today, we pause our coverage of the reversing the arrow conference to bring you a creative distillation treat our annual Halloween episode. This time it comes with a twist. Instead of Jeff putting brad through another ritual pumpkin beer tasting, we return to one of our favorite locations, pits and stems, to sample some hand crafted fall flavored cocktails created by our favorite bartender, Ethan Decker, joining Brad and Jeff is Bryn Reese, Associate Vice Chancellor for Research and Innovation and Managing Director of venture partners at CU Boulder, in short, Bryn and his group are at the center of tech transfer and new technological developments coming out of CU as you'll hear, there's a lot to be excited about with regards to innovation. Here, tune in to learn more about this, as well as Jeff's horror film recommendations and other thoughts on this spooky season. Enjoy and cheers and happy Halloween. Jeff York 1:31 Welcome to Creative distillation, where we distill entrepreneurship, research and actual insights. I am your host, Jeff York, research director, no Faculty Director. I have new title you do that's very exciting. Another title. It's pretty exciting and scary as well. Brad 1:50 And I'm joined by my co host, Brad Werner from the Deming center. And Jeff, it is great to see you. Jeff York 1:55 It's great to see you, Brad, it's your favorite time of the year, Halloween. I know you, I know you love it and you're excited. And you know, you just were so excited you had to invite your first ever guest that you solicited onto the podcast. Yeah, Brad 2:09 no, I'm really excited about our guests, because with Halloween, first of all, you know how much I love Halloween. I hate it. Brad Jeff York 2:15 loves Halloween. Brad 2:15 I look forward to the day after Halloween because it really kind of starts to line up the holiday season, yeah? And I'm sure you like it too, because every pumpkin beer goes on sale. Jeff York 2:24 Well, I think more of like the first of September lines up the holiday season, because that's when my Halloween celebration starts. Yeah, it does. It goes for a long goes for a long time. You know, it involves the fall and, you know, going to the mountain, seeing the leaves change and and watching nothing but horror movies. Oh, really, you'll be excited about that. You love horror movies just as much as you love Halloween. What are you gonna be for Halloween this year, Brad ? Brad 2:49 Hiding, Jeff York 2:51 He'll be here all week. Ladies and gentlemen, you introduce your guest. Let Brad 2:55 me give it a try. Bryn, first before and you can correct me. Bryn Rees 2:58 This is like letting chat. GPT, tell me about Yeah, Brad 3:03 so, so Brynn is the Vice Chancellor, associate associate Chancellor, Associate Vice Chancellor, okay, Bryn Rees 3:16 Associate Vice Chancellor of Research and Innovation, right? Awesome,which really means that you run tech transfer, we can get into that, but let's go for it for now. Okay, okay, Brad 3:26 so, right, so, but Brynn actually sees all the really cool scientific innovations that come through the university, exactly, right? Really great. And we've had a chance to work together on a few ventures, and the innovation that's coming out of CU is incredible. The program has just gone gangbusters. Since you've been here. How many years now? Bryn, Bryn Rees 3:45 I've been here 15 years. I've been in this role for 10 years, and I can say that I'm in a completely different job than when I started, and it's a completely different ecosystem. Yeah, that's great. Brad 3:54 And actually, data has told us that we are number two in startups. Bryn Rees 3:59 That is correct. You know, there's a lot of ways to look at startups and a lot of types of startups at universities, but one of the ways is to say how many startups came out of the research labs in a single year. And if you look at that metric, then CU Boulder is number two all time. So the most ever was Stanford University, unsurprisingly, right? Fair enough, in 2002 Jeff York 4:19 they do have a slightly larger endowment in the CU. I mean, just, just about a few they Bryn Rees 4:24 do zeros zero, and we did 35 in the last year. So that was, that's amazing. You Boulder, kind of coming out party for startups. But I would definitely say it's one of those, like overnight successes, 10 years in the making, Brad 4:38 right? That's, that's, that's fabulous. So congratulations. It's great for Jeff York 4:40 all of us, actionable insight. I think it's actual insight so Brad 4:45 but because it's Halloween, Jeff, I always bring a taster, and I'd like my taster to say hello. She's a friend of the cast. Emily Iliff 4:50 Hello. My name is Emily, and I am the Marketing Director of creative distillation podcast. Yay. Jeff York 4:57 We're so glad you're here. Liz, good to see you again. Welcome back. Glad to be here as well. All right? And then we have, we have one more guest, yeah, well, this Brad 5:07 is really, really cool, and we are lucky to call him a friend of the show, right? Josh, absolutely. Jeff York 5:11 I am thrilled to be back here at Pitts and stems on. Should we say what route it's on now we will. It's in Boulder. It's in a garage, and if you can find it, then maybe you can also meet Ethan. Yeah, so just Brad 5:27 start knocking on doors. Ethan Decker 5:30 It's Halloween. That does tend to happen. Jeff York 5:33 It's true. So do you usually invite trick or treaters back here into the bar? Ethan Decker 5:39 Most trick or treaters don't appreciate fine cocktails. Yeah, Jeff York 5:42 what we do? And we're thrilled to be here again. Thank you for having us. Thanks Ethan Decker 5:45 for coming back, gentlemen. So Jeff York 5:47 you know, normally for our Halloween episode, we have a fine variety of pumpkin beers, which Brad is a huge fan of and always excited to taste and sample many, many pumpkin beers. And he's been doing this, I think, for three years running now. So if you are a regular listener of creative distillation, first of all, bless you. Please give us a five star review. Put some review in the Apple podcast thingy or the Spotify podcast, whatever you want to do. Just, just do something, but don't do anything less than five stars, because that will not be good. So now, now you're gonna be disappointed because we're not drinking any pumpkin beer this year. Pumpkin beer this year. Brad 6:23 How did that happen? Jeff York 6:24 I don't know. I think it was Emily. I'm pretty sure it was Emily suggested we're Emily Iliff 6:30 doing pumpkin cocktails. We're upping our game. We're becoming more sophisticated. Ethan, Jeff York 6:34 is that true? Ethan Decker 6:35 I would say yes. I would hazard a guess that a pumpkin cocktail order. Oh, cocktail. So bread just Jeff York 6:44 when you thought you'd escaped. Brad 6:46 I really thought walking into Ethan's garage day I was safe. Jeff York 6:51 You're never safe at Halloween, Brad 6:55 this is a nightmare for me. Yeah, this Jeff York 6:57 is gonna be great. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be away like so should we start off with some drinks? Ethan Decker 7:02 Yes, okay, absolutely. All right. Brad 7:04 What do you have in mind, Ethan? Jeff York 7:05 So if you're interested in learning more about the history of pits and stems, you're going to want to go back to Episode 62 in which there is a more elaborate history of this place. And we still won't tell you where it is on there, but it's an amazing establishment, Ethan. You wanna give us abbreviated history of where we are, like a really quick one. Well, my Ethan Decker 7:25 day gig is marketing and branding and brand strategy, but pits and stems is a project of applied brand science. We are boulders best speakeasy, and I like to say that we might have the best cocktails in Boulder, but maybe not. You can only find out by coming I've got a few things on the menu. We've got a bourbon cocktail with some homemade pear vanilla syrup. We've got something else with my wife's homemade apple cider as well. Really, yep, that's called the Covered Bridge. That's bourbon or rye. Like a covered bridge, a Jeff York 8:05 headless horseman might go over and, like, walk your way. Brad 8:10 Never met a Halloween nerd before. Ethan Decker 8:14 I have a drink lined up called dad's cardigan, which is an amaro based cocktail. Some maple syrup, and then you can kind of got something called the Upper Peninsula, which I have developed, which is based with Calvados, which is an apple brandy. Oh my gosh. Bryn Rees 8:30 I mostly don't know the words that you just said, but definitely They sound amazing, especially the homemade Cider. Ethan Decker 8:39 Okay, something with a little homemade cider for you? Brent, yeah, I'll make a couple so you can taste a few different things. Sure Jeff York 8:46 sounds wonderful. Thank you so much. Okay, so Brent, you've been here 10 years at CU what have you seen change and evolve about, like, the entrepreneurship that's happening out of the university? I'm a loyal loss. I don't have a paper to ask you, but I can't, like me slapping a paper down and like, you know, looking at the abstract. We've never, ever done this. I'm loving this. We've never done this. So you are the you have the honor of being Brad's only invited guest, as well as the only person to ever be on creative distillation without a paper to flog. So Bryn Rees 9:16 all of the stats I'm going to mention are not peer reviewed. The statistical significance could be absolutely Brad 9:25 terrible. So Speaker 1 9:26 what has changed? So when I got here at 2009 it was such a different environment. And I would say that the majority of faculty that I would meet, meet with to talk about entrepreneurship, kind of would sometimes look at me like, What do you want from me, you know, like, I think I'm supposed to do this, and I don't really want to do it right. And fast forward to today. I'm just going to start on the, you know, the people, sorry, so many other things have changed, but now I get calls from folks faculty. Who are not even at CU yet. They're coming here in six months or three months, and they're like, I want to know what kind of entrepreneurship resources are here, what kind of programs, what kind of support I've got a startup, or I want to do a startup. So I would say that the culture is completely different, and everything else comes out of that. So I could say, yeah, we've got a venture fund and a startup accelerator and all these cool new programs, right? But none of that means anything if we don't have a culture of entrepreneurship right in the faculty and their grad students and their postdocs. Jeff York 10:29 Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, there are some, like, structural changes that have occurred. But would you say the bigger change has been, like, more cultural, like people just thinking, like, well, this is just sort of normal and something we do. And, I mean, we were also just listed. There was a new thing, yet another ranking, because we needed another ranking, actually, as well. It's pretty interesting. So it's in confess company, yep, Empath, right, yeah, just they did mention the best professor at the University, which I was very happy to see. That was good. Bryn Rees 10:56 Oh yeah, yeah. And that being yourself, yeah, of course, yes. Okay, very good. Jeff York 11:08 Here's something we could get. No, I was really surprised they mentioned me. I was like, what? That's really weird Bryn Rees 11:13 from 80th to 33rd Yeah, exactly, Jeff York 11:15 straight into that 33rd side. So Bryn Rees 11:18 I have read that, and I will say this, there are a lot of universe university rankings of entrepreneurship, or things of measures that are used as a proxy for entrepreneurship that are terrible, yeah, things like issued US patents, which are just very fast. It's just so narrow, right? And so what I like that Fast Company has done is at least try to be a little more holistic. So they've got number of alumni startups, and how much did those how much capital did those companies raise? And something about tech transfer that they didn't really disclose how they were measuring that, and research funding. And so they're trying to kind of look at innovation. Yeah, Jeff York 11:52 they're looking at new systems. Yeah, well, that's why I thought from the ranking, and it's like it was, seemed to be talking more. Was it like the number of startups like, because, I mean, we know that's not necessarily a very like, you know, Brad and I can just go create every student team in our class. We can create a startup. We can have them become an LLC. And that would be a terrible thing for us to do. I mean, it would just be responsible, in my opinion. But, boy, we don't write startups. I Bryn Rees 12:18 mean, ranking, Chase, chasing the ranking does happen, right and but what I love about all our ecosystem is that people don't do that. They're saying, what's the right thing to do to impact the present state, exactly, and the rankings will come because one of the issues with all these rankings is it's like looking, I'm going to get into some physics here. It's like looking at the at a star in the night sky, and you're actually looking back in time, right? The light from that star is traveling. For that star may have long burned out. And the same thing with rankings. If we're looking at how much capital that startups has raised, what did the university do to catalyze that? It happened five years ago, 10 years ago. So when a ranking comes out, I think, well, that's a reflection of CU Boulder and everybody else, five years ago, 10 years ago, and what we're doing today, we're not going Speaker 2 13:05 to know in rankings. That's really a great, a great insight, and scary, actual insight. Jeff York 13:14 I don't know what that was. That is called annihilation, the alien. I didn't quite get that from that. I didn't either, but anyway, that I did think that's that is an interesting insight that most people are probably not aware of. When you look at the university rankings, they come out every year, and you're thinking, Oh, well, so and so moved up. And really, what you're looking at is what happened quite some time ago. And so you gotta start, I mean, for have those effects on those things, you gotta start laying those tracks. Now, I guess it's Bryn Rees 13:41 really pronounced in my field, where we're, you know, we're working actively with folks in, especially in science and engineering, on these early stage ideas for that to become a product on the market. I mean, we're talking 10 plus years, yeah, yeah, Jeff York 13:54 which is amazing, but that's Brad 13:56 deep tech, right? That's deep tech. That's what it is. But deep tech is Bryn Rees 13:59 really freaking cool too, right? To change the world it is. And by the way, if we were looking at that star, and we wanted to know what the star is made out of, like, what the substance that is burning in that star, we could do that with CU technology, just from the Brad 14:13 light, amazing, right? So, when you, when you think about, kind of your 10 years, tell me the the fields that you're really excited about now that maybe that didn't exist 10 years ago. Bryn Rees 14:26 That's a great, a great question. You know, I've a couple of advanced degrees in in science, and yet most of the stuff that I see didn't exist when I was in graduate school. So it's totally new. So a couple of examples of that. Genome engineering has come so far. Before I got into university, entrepreneurship, I worked in pharma, in genomics, right? So cutting edge stuff, but if I think about what we were doing then versus what we can do now, it's just like light years. So as an example, if we wanted to truly cure somebody's disease, that. Was science fiction 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and now you see people with these, you know, congenital disorders. There's something wrong with your immune system. We're not treating that. We're fixing their genes, right? So something has gone wrong with, let's say, their their T cells, and how they can respond to disease, reactive after, yeah, after you have symptoms, yeah, it's incredible, right? So that's an example that just it didn't exist when I started in this field, right? Brad 15:27 I would say actually, the mapping of the genome is probably one of the biggest scientific achievements in my lifetime, right? And we have 100 years to go until we really see what the outcome of that discovery is going to Bryn Rees 15:39 be, absolutely. So the company I was at was GlaxoSmithKline, and we were doing some very cool things in terms of leveraging what was available through the Human Genome Project to say, why do people respond differently to drugs? Why does it work for some people have no effect on others and actually be detrimental to another part of the population? And that was, you know, I was 20 plus years ago, and we're only just now starting to make progress in that really cool Ethan just set Jeff York 16:06 something in front of us. Is this finished? Ethan? Are you still building it? Ethan Decker 16:10 Nope, that is ready to be enjoyed. Jeff York 16:12 Okay, well, I gotta ask you about it. Then Sorry to interrupt. Ethan Decker 16:15 This is called the flannel shirt. It is some blended scotch, homemade apple cider, Amaro Averna, lemon juice, and then a bunch of other little things, like a little bit of maple syrup, a little bit of St Elizabeth allspice DRAM, and then a little bit of Angostura bitters. And I think you're excited about the ice cube. Jeff York 16:36 The Ice Cube is a large square of ice with a flour frozen in it. It's incredible, right? Ethan Decker 16:44 Those are flowers from our garden. Jeff York 16:45 I take a picture like, we gotta taste this. Cheers. Cheers to the flannel shirt. Brad 16:49 Nothing better than a good flannel shirt. Jeff York 16:52 Well, I mean, the aroma is like, immediately evokes like apple orchards and like fall apple picking, kind of leather Brad 16:59 to me, I wasn't this so much more refined than pumpkin beer. Well, Ethan Decker 17:04 the Beer Fest just has a different vibe than a cocktail, right? Yeah, exactly. I Brad 17:09 like the cocktail vibe myself. Jeff York 17:10 Well, pumpkin cocktails coming. So, yeah. So this has got, like, initial greatness, and then, like, get the maple syrup, for sure. I taste the same Elizabeth in there. This is just delicious. The other Ethan Decker 17:24 thing I love about this cocktail is its base spirit is scotch. And Scotch cocktails are a rare yes and B, difficult to create because Scotch is often smoking overpowering. This has a lot of other stout things that stand up to it, and then they all kind of punch each other in the face and blend harmoniously together. But Jeff York 17:45 I do get a little bit of the smoke in the background, just a hint. It's really nice. This kind of gives you that outdoor, fireside kind of fall feeling, least, that's what I'm thinking of. Bryn Rees 17:56 That's a very sophisticated palette. I like it. Jeff York 18:02 What was the foam you put on top? Or the DRAM your top there the DRAM that Ethan Decker 18:07 was some of the homemade apple cider, but it's a foamy apple cider that I've concocted with it. So it's a little bit of a, yeah, an apple cider foam float. Do Brad 18:18 you have apple trees on your ranch? Ethan Decker 18:19 We have a honey crisp. Oh, you do, yeah. We planted it about 15 years ago for anniversary. Fabulous. And it, it probably bears fruit every other year because the springs in Colorado were pretty various. Yeah? Jeff York 18:34 Awesome. Thank you. Ethan Decker 18:35 This is, it was a good year for the apple. Did Jeff York 18:37 you taste this brand? It's Ethan Decker 18:41 The other thing I love about doing this isn't just concocting new things, but using what's around. So when there's fresh mint in the garden, we do a lot of things with mint. Oh yeah, when my wife makes something like elderberry syrup, I use a lot of that. When apples are booming, we make things with apples. Jeff York 19:00 So did you create this cocktail? Ethan, or is this it's one of your own creations. It's Ethan Decker 19:04 a it's based on something I found, but ultimately, I've modified it a bit again to use the local ingredients and to make it a pits and stems. Originally, I Brad 19:15 don't think I've ever had anything Jeff York 19:16 quite like that. I mean, it's the sale. Elizabeth, I've just been drinking so many Tiki cocktails. Elizabeth DRAM immediately evokes like a jet pilot or a zombie or, yeah, Ethan Decker 19:28 or the all spice, yeah, there are a couple things in cocktails that don't play well, right? You know, it's the same way that, like, you know, grapefruit flavor doesn't play super well, or with things. Or pineapple, you know, pineapple stands out so much in your food. So when you have those things, you got to pull them way, way, way back. So in this case, it's maybe a half of a teaspoon right between both cocktails, because you just need that little little scotch. Look at Jeff York 19:55 the flower, but the overwhelming aroma I get from it is the Apple like that seems to come. Cross. Oh, this Brad 20:00 is apple pie to me. Yeah, right. It's Jeff York 20:02 very what I was saying is almost like an apple Tiki cocktail to me, because it's sweet, it's balanced. It's also got that richness on the bottom end that usually get from the rum. But here, oh yeah, it's a Ethan Decker 20:16 challenge to use sweet ingredients and not make a cocktail that's overly saccharine, right? So, Bryn Rees 20:22 so does that have honey in it? Ethan Decker 20:23 This has a little maple syrup, but again, dialed back from a lot of the recipes you'll find, because I think they're overly sweet. So you need a little maple syrup flavor. You need a little apple flavor. And people often, I mean, you hear it in wine all the time, people say this wine is so sweet, and what they really mean is it's fruity, but it doesn't have any actual sweetness or sugar to it. They're Jeff York 20:44 getting that fruit flavor, yeah. Now, considering it was 90 degrees yesterday in Boulder, it's uh but today it's nice and cool. It's perfect. It's love getting into the actual spirit of Halloween. When do you like Halloween? I love Halloween. Yes. Great Bryn Rees 20:59 answer. Nothing is Halloween me, to me, more than being way too cold in some kind of, you know, absurd costume. And it was a nice day, you know, on October 31 in Boulder. And then the temperature drops 1015 degrees, and it's, it's a little challenging. Jeff York 21:18 Now, is this because you go trick or treating with Bryn Rees 21:20 us. I absolutely go trick or treating. I've got a 12 year old and a nine year old. Jeff York 21:25 Because what you were just telling me is like that is, that is, my kids are 17 and 20, so they they go wreak havoc in whatever ways they do. And I just the police don't show up on Halloween. But I so remember so many times we go trick or treating in Boulder, and it'd be like the day before, 80 degrees, sunny, gorgeous. Sure enough, Halloween, like, right about noon, a cold front comes in, or maybe even, like, five o'clock, like, they come in, and it starts like, wind starts howling as it does. It drops to, like, just around, not cold enough for it to actually be like freezing, like, just feel three with wind, and then the snow and rain starts to come. Yeah, that's my Halloween. Brad 22:08 Just like elk hunting. Jeff York 22:11 I got a story about anyway, we won't do that. Okay, all right, so there's been those kinds of changes that have happened over time. Brynn, what do you think? Like? What does the future look like? As far as like, I mean, the entrepreneur, because you have a view that Brad and I, you know, we, we get involved in things across campus. We try to help out, you know, we go to the New Venture Challenge and sit in the very top and do our Muppets thing, yeah, but, you know, but you see, you have, like, a much broader view, like, what are you most excited about in the future, and maybe, where are some of the challenges we face in the university. Bryn Rees 22:42 I mean, forward, I think that Brad, our connection is a microcosm of where the university's going. And if there's one word, where there's opportunity and where we're addressing the current challenge, which is fragmentation and style, yeah, it's integration. And So Brad, we've got. So you're, you're in the College of Business, I'm in a, you know, campus wide group, and we're, we're working together, you know, against all odds, right? That's where, that's where this university is headed, right? Well, so Brad 23:15 for me, Bryn, I'm not an academic, right? So I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been searching out opportunity, right? What would make great businesses, and how do you accelerate and really light the rocket on some of these things? And that's how I found you, right, right through Betsy and some of the things we've done. And I have a company that came out of tech transfer from MIT, so I understand the importance of what this is, and it's just, it's really cool. Jeff York 23:37 What are you guys working on? Like, together? I don't think we've talked about that explicitly, happy on that name. So Brad 23:41 no, so let's talk about some of the classes or some of the teams that came through new venture launch last year. Yeah. Bryn Rees 23:48 So we had Icarus quantum Yep, was one. We had Mesa quantum systems. Was two, right? And we now your class is not a quantum class, but we did have two and Brad 24:03 then a filter company. Oh, that's right. Do you remember what the innovation was? It was a bit, I think it was a very high powered or very improved filter system that could be integrated into a current line of chip manufacturers. Okay, great. Bryn Rees 24:19 I know less about that one. So let's Brad 24:23 right, but so anyway, we have two quantum companies in common, and those companies very different, by the way, but they really have the chance to change the world, both of them in different ways. Bryn Rees 24:33 Yeah. And what I think what is common between the two is a highly motivated, engaged, recent PhD grad who's just got a ton of hustle, great attitude, and is going to be the differentiator in both cases. I totally Brad 24:48 agree. And here's the thing, not only, I mean brilliant people, but quality humans, yes, and, and so that even makes working with them for me times 10x right? Bryn Rees 24:59 It's. And then coming back to Jeff, you were saying, So what are some of the problems? This is not a actually, Jeff York 25:05 if you don't mind, just want to dig a little more into that, because you're not as familiar with these companies as you guys. What degree is like, the focus on quantum of two of these companies and, and let's actually rewind just a little bit more from New Venture launch, like, I don't think we've ever talked about that on the podcast, right? So you want to Brad 25:20 talk? Yeah, yeah. So Jeff, Jeff actually launched new venture launch five years ago through a grant from the intuitive foundation I took over from Jeff. This will be my third year. So grant funded where we can actually provide funding for some of these startups, a legal foundation, and any sort of mentorship that they need, and really get them moving. And it's truly incredible. So from last year, I think every venture, these are not teams, these are not student teams. Every venture is still moving forward, and the quantum ones are gaining great traction. And the really cool thing about the class is, is that it's open to the entire cu ecosystem, right? Do Jeff York 26:00 you still require the applicants to represent at least two disciplines on cu campus? I Brad 26:06 just leave it open, and it just is dependent as to what the pool is. Okay? Great. So last year, we had 60 applicants, and we took 20 and range, yeah, it ranges from we had a sophomore who had won the US Robotics Championship twice, all the way to PhD professors, right? I mean quantum professors and postdocs and MBAs, lawyer I mean, or law students. And it's just, it's truly incredible when we put these teams together, and many of them meet it in the classroom and actually move and move forward together. Yeah. Bryn Rees 26:42 So what I love about new venture launch is that very often my group, which is a group of about 25 folks, are working with these innovators, and they've got tremendous technology, but when it comes to product market fit and when it comes to a revenue model, they're they're really needing a lot of help. So they're brilliant, and they can pick this stuff up, no problem. But they've never been exposed to it. Oh no. So having a formal, structured program like new venture launch, and we had a couple companies go through when you were teaching it, too, Jeff and some of them have gone on to do some really great things. First, COVID, Jeff York 27:15 I was like, oh my god, I gotta find better. And that led me over to venture partners. Yeah, it really did, because, like, we were, we were we started the class. We were doing kind of a traditional thing of, you know, oh well, these students have an idea and they want to explore. And this, there's a place for that, absolutely, on campus, and it's the vast majority what we teach. It's like students coming in, they don't really have any experience, they don't really have any technology, they've got an idea, usually bad and they're trying to explore, but we wanted to create something totally differentiated that was actually about real companies. Like, how do we take real companies have links to CU Boulder and launch them? How do we make the transition from the campus to the real world? Yep, and that was the whole goal of the thing. Bryn Rees 27:59 So seeing the progress that Icarus and and Mesa made last year was was tremendous. Yeah, Brad 28:06 I have to tell you, though, as someone that's customer focused, the first time that I talked to a quantum scientist and say, Tell me about your first customer. Look at me like, I'm from Mars, yeah. Bryn Rees 28:16 But I mean, no matter what question you ask, you may get the same answer, which is, how does their science work? Right? Jeff York 28:25 So true. Yeah. So even you're a marketing guy, like, what do you what do you think? Like you ever deal with people that, like are technologists or entrepreneurs, and they just have no idea how to create or you have to try to help them understand how to do this all the time, but the beauty never happened to me. No, no, Ethan Decker 28:44 obviously, obviously. The beauty of what I've I've learned, and what I've started to do is I figured out how to give those folks an intuitive, personal understanding of how some of these mushy, emotional things really work, so that it's not abstract. It's not the data trying to persuade them or convince them of something, and especially when it comes to things like mascots, right? Mascots seem silly. Mascots seem illogical. Let's talk about the features, the benefits, if it's in B to B, we're dealing with rational agents and large committees and procurement departments. But you know what, all those people go home and watch True Detective. They like they like TV, right? They like interesting things probably Jeff York 29:33 watch. It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown, exactly. Ethan Decker 29:35 And none of them know what brand of toilet paper they probably wipe their butts with nor do they know that brands story, nor do they know the features and benefits of where it's manufactured Jeff York 29:47 that made me weird? Yeah, absolutely, Ethan Decker 29:52 I've done this and at this point quantitatively, and I have good quantitative data that that it's like one in 200 That knows what toilet paper they Bryn Rees 30:01 really use. I love where you're taking us Ethan, which is like the psychological side of your customer, right? And what is their experience exactly? Something that we talk a lot to our founders about is empathy and and getting out of the let's just, let's just be real. It's kind of like a self absorption with our own work and our own product, product, our own technology, and completely put that to the side and say, Who is this person across from me? What is their world? How do they make decisions? And really try and have some kind of like resonance with their experience bingo Ethan Decker 30:35 and most people can't find their car keys in the morning, so they're not going to really dig into all the features and benefits of your product or company. So make it simple. One of the phrases I use, especially with engineering types, is a when it comes to a business or brand or all of those aspects of marketing, you gotta overthink it, and then you've gotta under think it. You've gotta radically under think it, for instance, most of us probably Jeff York 31:04 actual insight. Ethan Decker 31:06 Most of us can't tell the difference between State Farm and Farmers Insurance when it comes to their features, their products, their services, but Jeff York 31:13 we know they're bad. We know their mascots, yep, yep, flow and whatever. The guy right guy that was in whiplash, the Ethan Decker 31:26 mayhem guy, the meerkat. Guy in Europe, right, right. We know all those things, because this is, this is, think about it, a very complicated financial service that is used when it's, yeah, when, when stuff goes really bad, like your house gets demolished or someone gets injured. It's insurance, right? And they figured out that, okay, we have to underthink it, radically. Underthink it so much so that if your brand name is Geico, your logo shouldn't be an elephant or a giraffe. It should be one letter away, a gecko, Geico Gecko. That's how underthinking they got to do it, because it's not like any of us are dumb. It's just that even when it comes to our own insurance products, we don't really want to give that much time and attention to it. We want to make it easy and trust that the company will be there when stuff goes bad. Brad 32:18 I think it should be called Frelk Did Brynn see the frog? Did you? Yeah? Chance to check this out. Jeff York 32:26 I mean, I've got them on all my larva. I've got one on my guitar. They're awesome for those Ethan Decker 32:31 listening at home. The frolic is the logo for Applied brand science. It is a kind of version of a jackalope, I guess. Yeah, it's a frog with elk antlers. It's Jeff York 32:40 awesome. Yeah, it is. Brad 32:41 So I've been working with scientists for a long time, and large part of my investing life. And I will tell you that if you get and I think I've mentioned this to Bryn before, if you pay a scientist about 150,000 a year, you give them a world class lab and a great pizza every day, you will never see them again, right? You won't, they'll be, they'll be so happy. Is that an insight, Jef? Jeff York 33:05 You know, we don't got a paper. I think that's actionable, though. Yeah, I think there are people in the world that can afford to find a scientist and afford to get them a pizza and a desk, yeah? And they probably be a lot better off doing that than sitting around and coming up with their ideas, yeah, but Brad 33:19 the world class lab, though, actually helps quite a lot. Jeff York 33:23 Seriously, though, I often mean, you know, we're here. We're here in Boulder. For those of you not from Boulder, it is a wash in high net worth individuals, many of whom want to talk to people like me about their ideas, like when we're at a party or whatever, and their ideas are pretty bad, because they're not based around anything. They're just like, I got this idea, and because I came up with it, it's good, it's a good idea. If we build it, there's no there's no underlying I think this is the, this is why I'm so excited about the direction of working more between business and engineering, because it tends to be the case in my experience. And these are really crude generalizations, but, but but having been teaching here for like, 13 years, tends to be the case. Their engineers absolutely understand how to make things work. They will not have survived long enough to make it into one of my classes. If they have not gained that level of understanding, the engineering curriculum is just too much. They won't get there. The Business students tend to have good ideas about how to they know how to build a revenue model on Excel. They know they should have a brand, and they know that pitching is important. But their ideas are tend to be outside the laws of physics if they're technology based. And so when you bring these two disciplines together, and I think the next step is trying to teach the same people both disciplines. Yeah, because bringing the teams together is one thing, but imagine programs that teach people all right? Yes, you're going to have to learn to a certain level of competence engineering skills as well as business skills. I mean, I think that would be something that would really potentially change the world. In a lot of ways. And I And when Bob Dobkin, the founder of intuitive foundation, I sat in his house and he told me that I think five, six years ago, because I was going out there and talking to him about potential gift to the University, I nodded and smiled and said, Yes, Bob, of course, you're right. He's so much more right than I ever thought he was, you know. Brad 35:19 And I spoke to Bob six months ago, and he's thrilled about the work that we're doing. I mean, he's thrilled. I mean, so Bob effectively invented the the computer chip. So he looks at the outcomes of new venture launch, Jeff York 35:30 and then spent the next 50 years trying to work with business people. Yeah, right. Brad 35:35 I mean, seriously and, and he's actually met with some of our team members, including Mesa Quantum. Yeah, right. So he's just, he's he's great. So it's fun. I like Jeff York 35:46 the COVID. Ethan Decker 35:46 Oh, that's the early snow. Well, no, sorry, the September snow. It is a pear based and bourbon based cocktail. It's got a bourbon. It's got some wild turkey 101, which is my go to for good Kentucky bourbon. Really, it's got Poor William, which is unaged pear brandy from France, a little bit of sweet vermouth, and then some homemade pear and vanilla syrup that I made. It's like, it's Bryn Rees 36:18 really incredible. Ethan, really Brad 36:20 incredible. Ethan Decker 36:25 Yes, Jeff York 36:26 yeah, the first time we were going to come here, we were like, This dude's garage. Like, sit and drink. Yes, great. It's not some dude. I mean, it is some dudes garage, but it's also, Brad 36:40 It's a great bar. Jeff York 36:40 I think the best cocktails and possibly the best bar in all boulder. Yes, Brad 36:44 are there other speakeasies in Boulder? You Ethan Decker 36:46 don't know if any. I think they're, they're at least a couple other garage bars. That's know how Jeff York 36:52 that this is, this drink is amazing. Different patrons. Ethan Decker 36:55 They've had. I've had about 200 folks come through that I've met just because they were interested in trying out some cocktails. Yeah, now they're members, Jeff York 37:04 cool. Would you be having a Halloween gathering? Ethan Decker 37:07 We will be having a Halloween gathering. Oh, yeah, excellent. I Jeff York 37:13 will come make zombies go to cocktail, and it's thematic, right? Brad 37:19 Check this out. Joel. Jeff York 37:22 Joel, I Joel's in Brad 37:24 the back with his feet up on the desk. He's all good. Well, Jeff York 37:27 so Okay, so now we'll rewind back to where we're I'm getting better at this, like, keeping up with where I distracted everybody from. So not necessarily problems. But what do you think are like, some of the obstacles like that we face that we got to kind of prepare for in the coming I've been working on the strategy for the business school for the last like year or so, and so I know what I think. I'm just curious to get your perspective right. Like, you know, as far as being an entrepreneurial ecosystem, see you advancing itself in entrepreneurship and innovation. What do you think are some of the obstacles we face? You Bryn Rees 37:58 know, some of them are a little cliched, but I think that they're true, right? Sure, we talk a lot about, you know, embracing failure and celebrating failure, at least in the entrepreneurial community. I don't think the university is really there yet, like, in terms of, like, let's, let's, let's, let's experiment, let's try things and let's figure out, you know, what doesn't work and let it go. I don't think, I think we're still, we still got a waste. Jeff York 38:24 Sorry, I'm saying awesome, while you're saying that. Sorry. This was just, I was like, that's awesome. University isn't there yet. Ethan's day of the dead dog, of the dead aloe. Ethan Decker 38:35 That was a gift from a patron. Jeff York 38:37 That's awesome. So, okay, so that's, that's kind of tough. It's tough to people that don't understand, like, the vast majority of these things are not going to work, and that's okay. Like, that's the price we have. It's, Bryn Rees 38:49 well, actually, actually, I was on the way over here, I was thinking about distillation, right, and how that works. So I was, you know, we were talking about, yeah, you know how you're a nerd when it comes to Halloween, I'm a nerd about a lot of things. And one is that, you know, I spent a lot of time in a chemistry lab doing actual distillation, right? And it's like you're separating impurities out of something that you want. And that's what we're doing in entrepreneurship, right? But in order to do that, we've got to have a process to apply, to apply the heat, right, right? And knowing that some things are not going to go forward, yeah? And that's, that's Jeff York 39:24 a much larger volume of liquid to start with, that's right, Bryn Rees 39:28 with a lot of junk in it, yeah, with a lot of things you don't want, yeah, but those Brad 39:31 successes may ease the way in the future, right? I mean, if you how many companies were you working with? Like, 10 years ago? Bryn Rees 39:39 10 years ago, we probably did about five startups a year, and that's so now about seven times faster. So it's a, it's a, it's a big change. That's awesome. Brad 39:47 I mean, so just in the VC world, that basket is going to lead to success, right? And Unknown Speaker 39:52 nothing, let's say, develops culture more than than success, right? And having one person say, you know, my my colleague, did it, I'm definitely. Going to do it. But also, I think the low hanging fruit is we've got to celebrate the successes. So I was counting up the other day in a internal meeting about how many unicorn companies have come out of the research labs at CU Boulder, seven, really, seven unicorns, right? And like, who knows that? Nobody knows that. Brad 40:23 I didn't know that, right? That's incredible, yeah, so, so I first met Brynn, actually on a phone call before Eric and I went to the Weizmann Institute on Tel Aviv, yeah, and the whitesman had hired the Deming center to help them commercialize technology. And when I had the call with you, and I was not, it was not in person. I think it was a zoom call that I'm thinking as we went through this list. Though, in my head, you're hitting everything that I like, and I'm thinking, I like this guy, and so after that, first of all, testing it at Wiseman was a great success. We just signed another contract with him, actually, okay, but the techniques that you use are they're in commonalities with everything that we're doing, right? I mean, there is a methodology behind all this, right? That works? Unknown Speaker 41:04 Yep, actually. I mean, I think the universities in Israel are known for being some of the most mature when it comes to translating technologies and commercialization. And what we believe is our most innovative programs embark, which is a deep, deep tech startup creation program. We haven't seen anybody else do anything like that in the US, but after a few conversations with some of our advisors, we learned that Technion University had done something. I Brad 41:33 didn't know that, right? Yes, yeah, really cool. I actually mentioned all of my students somehow take a look at the portfolio at Venture Partners, because there might be something in there for you, right? I mean, everybody needs to be aware that you can search this and and go through Venture Partners with a very favorable licensing agreement and start something Jeff York 41:55 up, wow, action website. I think this because we do. I mean, what little we know of who listens to this podcast, and if you do, make sure you give it a five star ranking right now, I think so. Well, yes, until maybe tonight, because there's no pumpkin beer, and people are gonna be sorely disappointed. They will be the guy with the disappointed, the guy with the pumpkin tattoo is gonna be really upset. That's my favorite guys that's ever written to us, I was going to say that is actually, in reality, an actionable insight, especially for our alums. I think that I do know some of them listen to this, you know, coming back and being able to look at those opportunities to get into that embark program, yep, like, let's say you've gone and had some success. You've done well or or maybe not. I mean, whatever. And you're looking to really change the direction your career. You're looking to get involved in the start. I mean, this is a huge opportunity. Yeah, this is not open. I don't think it's open to just anyone, right? Well, it's Unknown Speaker 42:52 competitive, so anybody can compete, but it's got about a 10% acceptance rate right now, or maybe a little Jeff York 42:58 I just had a former student come through, and I was really excited. He made it through. He did, yeah, so that was and he's coming back after, I think, seven years. Yep, I'm really happy for him, because he was like, Oh, this is, this is really cool, yeah. So, Unknown Speaker 43:10 and, you know, I have seen some research institutions, but actually more of the federal labs that, you know, they'll put a listing of their technologies up on a website, but I think that is not going to be compelling for most people, right? And so what we're doing with embark is, you know, taking an innovation that's usually got hundreds of 1000s, if not millions of dollars of research funding behind it, right? So you're kind of, you're hitting the ground running, right? You don't need that years of R and D to generate your product, but you're also joining a really well developed ecosystem, right? You can, you can go into new venture launch. You can participate in other campus competitions and get several $100,000 in non dilutive funding. You can pitch to our venture fund, buff gold ventures participate in our startup accelerator. So you're, you're, you're joining a community, right? And a really fantastic community in Boulder, it's not just, Hey, you get some tech. Jeff York 44:04 Oh yeah. The advantage of being in Boulder too is like, I mean, yesterday, I was meeting with a current student, and you were at some brewery, and I saw two other entrepreneurs I knew, and she was trying to talk to me about this initial idea she had, and she had talked to me about and had a beer. I was like, Okay, go here. Pitch this guy on. And she actually got some really good advice and some offers to help with her mind. And the Brad 44:26 other part of Boulder that I didn't realize, which I found out this week, is this week, I had a tour of NIST. I had never been in. I'd never been well, I've driven by 1000 times, right? I'd never been in the gate. So you pull up and the guy has you open all of your doors, your hood and your trunk. They said, Go wait in this office while they check your car. It's like going to the airport, but once you get in, I Unknown Speaker 44:47 do that to you. When you go there, pretty much that's just you. Brad, yeah, it Brad 44:52 was incredible. It was truly incredible. We've been to NREL. Never Jeff York 44:57 Oh, we gotta go over to NREL. Yeah, that'll really blow your mind. Yeah, so I Brad 45:00 mean Chocolate Factory renewable, but talk about an ecosystem, though. So we have entrepreneurs, there's money, there's there's brilliance here. There are ideas, multiple Jeff York 45:10 national laboratories, pits and stems. Yes, some Brad 45:15 of this is kind of this random happening as well that has come together to build something incredible, right? Jeff York 45:21 I think so. Yeah, you know, guys, any other halloween thoughts you want to share? I mean this, I gotta say this is perhaps the least spooky episode we've ever done on Halloween. Unknown Speaker 45:31 So what are you gonna be? Jeff, well, I Jeff York 45:35 am always the same thing. I'm the storyteller because I run this blood on the clock tower game, and I run the game. And the game is the storyteller is the first person to die. Their body is found impaled on the minute hand of the clock tower. And then my ghost actually leads everyone through the rest of this. How long does this take? It takes about two and a half hours to run the game. Davis, it's pretty great, though. Anyway, well, anything you want to add on, add on Halloween wishes. Ethan, any parting thoughts? Ethan Decker 46:03 Good libations to all, Jeff York 46:05 yes, Joel Davis 46:07 Jeff, give us a good horror film recommendation. Jeff York 46:10 Oh, okay, so you know, Brad needs a horror film recommendation. This is actually not good for Brad, but if you like horror films, I would say there's one called barbarian that came out last year that's quite good and not what it seems at all. If you really want a good horror movie, in my opinion, 824, you can't go too wrong with most of their horror films. In particular, the bitch or the witch. Stylize the bitch. Emily, you seen that? Emily Iliff 46:39 It was disturbing. Jeff York 46:41 What were your thoughts on the vet? Emily, Emily Iliff 46:42 I think I saw it when I was, like, a freshman in college. Perfect. I Jeff York 46:47 showed my kids when they were, like, 12. Emily Iliff 46:48 Um, well, I watched it with my it was me and my family's the whole first time seeing it. But the main takeaway is that it's disturbing, yes, and weird, yeah. Kind of makes you want to, like, crawl out of your skin, but it's great. That's what you're going for, Jeff York 47:04 exactly, exactly. So check out the bitch. Bryn Rees 47:07 One too. Great. This one, I can't shake it. This is from like, 10 years ago. It's called the baba Duke. Oh, yeah. So this is, I can remember 24 watching this with with some friends, and one person leapt up in the middle, ran away, and we never saw her. And, and, and I think it's deep too. You know what happens? Jeff York 47:36 No, it's, I mean, that's the thing. Is, there's some commentary going on underneath, absolutely. And there is in the bitch too. I mean, I think a truly great horror movie. I mean this, this goes way back to, like the universal monster movies, or even before, but, but really, uh, George uh Romero perfected it with the the zombie movies, Dawn of the Dead, right? Having a parallel social commentary going on at the same time as the movie itself. And that makes it disturbing on a whole different level. And that's what's a great horror movie is, in my humble opinion. So hey, if you listen to the podcast, what you're gonna want to do is set all this horror aside. You're gonna want to reach out, come to Boulder before it gets snowy, and you're gonna wanna see all the murals. And what? How can I see murals in Boulder if I wanted to see I mean I can't walk! Brad 48:18 No, I think electric bikes, are the only way, right, Jeff? Jeff York 48:22 Electric bikes, because, I mean, clearly I'll be too inebriated to walk, so I have to ride an electric bike, because that's safe. If you need to do that, you want to go to jdjoyrides.com if you want to go to a place that has no pumpkin beer whatsoever, and they're very proud of it, liquid mechanics, check them out. Liquid mechanics.com Those are our two sponsors for the podcast. Maybe we'll be able to get pits and stems the sponsor eventually. There we are, but yeah, and once again, I'm Jeff York. I'm faculty director at the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado. Boulder. I Brad 48:56 am Brad Warner, and I'd like to thank both Ethan and Bryn for being here, and Emily as well. Joel, you too. So it's great to see all of you. Thank you very much, and we'll see you next time. Jeff York 49:06 Absolutely Happy Halloween, everybody. Dona L 49:10 This episode of creative distillation was recorded on the front porch of the Chautauqua mission house at the reversing the arrow conference held in Boulder in June 2024, Jen's paper challenging what we think we know, theory and evidence for questioning common beliefs about the gender gap in entrepreneurial confidence was published in June 2022, in Entrepreneurship, theory and practice. Check the show notes for a link and learn more about Jennifer Jennings on her faculty page at the University of Alberta website. We'd love to hear your feedback and ideas. Email us at CD podcast@colorado.edu Them, and please be sure to Subscribe to Creative distillation wherever you get your podcasts. The creative distillation podcast is made possible by the Deming Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Colorado, boulders, Leeds School of Business. For more information, please visit deming.colorado.edu, that's D, E, M, I, N, G, and click the creative distillation link. Creative distillation is produced by Joel Davis at analog digital arts. Our theme music is whiskey before breakfast, performed by your humble host, Brad and Jeff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here next week for the next round of creative distillation. You.

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